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Virgin Train Crash In Lake District
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mark occomore



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:06 pm    Post subject: Virgin Train Crash In Lake District Reply with quote

A Virgin train has derailed and slid down an embankment in Cumbria.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/6391633.stm
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Toggy tea slurper
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh dear Sad I hope nobody is seriously injured, or worse.
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was one of Virgin Pendolino trains which go around 125mph, but over recent years have been asked to reduce their speeds.

http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/virgin/


I can read the headlines should trains go fast blah, blah? Shocked
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It dosen't sound too good to be honest Sad
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toggy tea slurper wrote:
It dosen't sound too good to be honest Sad


No it doesn't
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Julia



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm regularly on that line (using that strech as well) - usually use GNER rather than Virgin

I hope no one is seriously hurt - it's terrible... I feel even more shocked because I'm a regular 'customer'
Virgin have always been pants mind you
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Cherskiy



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One elderly lady was killed in the incident, according to the news this morning. Seems the rescue crews had one hell of a job trying to reach the scene of the derailment - narrow lanes, waterlogged fields, etc.

It's amazing there weren't many more casualties.
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These Pendolino trains are built to with stand accidents and it's amazing how the carriages were all in tact. They reckon it could be points failure which also was the cause of the potters bar crash in hatfield.
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John W



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
They reckon it could be points failure which also was the cause of the potters bar crash in hatfield.


The Potters Bar crash in 2002 was caused by poorly maintained points. Other sets of points in the Potters Bar area showed similar maintenance deficiencies, and the poor state of maintenance "probably arose from a failure to understand fully the design and safety requirements". Network Rail and Jarvis eventually accepted liability.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
They reckon it could be points failure which also was the cause of the potters bar crash in hatfield.


Those were 2 separate crashes, both were down to poor maintenance. The Hatfield one was faulty points the Potters bar one was loose nuts.
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was watching Richard Branson being interviewed for about 10 minutes by the press, you wouldn't get many bosses doing this? He said 'that he was on holiday in the alpes when he received 10 messages, and knew that something was up and flew back to the crash scene. He praised the injured driver and said 'it's a day of not being angry and blame anyone'.

The network rail boss was interviewed and did say 'that if it was failure on their part he might have to go.
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Highlander



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we should be grateful that the robust design of the new coaches may have help reduce casualties.

Several air-sea rescue helicopters from all over the UK had to be used to get people out during the first few hours. There certainly appears to be an air of openness from the rail track operator.

Lessons may have actually been learned from previous disasters.
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Cherskiy



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Highlander wrote:
Several air-sea rescue helicopters from all over the UK had to be used to get people out during the first few hours.


"Rescue122/123" from RAF Valley, Anglesey, "Rescue128" from RAF Leconfield, East Yorkshire, and "Rescue131" from RAF Boulmer, Northumberland, plus a civvie "Helimed" from Liverpool: the Cumbrian Air Ambulance Dauphin from Penrith was probably called out too. The last time so many rescue helos were sent to Cumbria was when the floods hit Carlisle a few years ago.

All of the above were transferring casualties to hospitals in Kendal, Preston and Lancaster, although some patients apparently ended up at Edinburgh.
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Julia



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

some came from Barrow in Furnace
don't know if it was the ambulance or fire engines
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Cherskiy



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Julia wrote:
some came from Barrow in Furnace
don't know if it was the ambulance or fire engines


Walney Island Airfield at Barrow in Furness was opened shortly after midnight to refuel the helos, in order to stop them having to make lengthy flights north to Carlisle Airport (their usual port of call for fuel whilst operating in the Lakes).

Apart from evacuating the injured, the helos also used their spotlights to illuminate the crash site for the benefit of the ground rescue crews.
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Julia



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe Walney Island helped too - but it's not part of Barrow, it's separate

I'm sure I read that the Barrow firebrigade or ambulances were used as well
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Cherskiy



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Julia wrote:
maybe Walney Island helped too - but it's not part of Barrow, it's separate

I'm sure I read that the Barrow firebrigade or ambulances were used as well


Walney Island is literally five minutes walk from Barrow, just over the bridge - it's classed as the same place, Vickerstown being effectively its western suburb. I wouldn't be surprised if Barrow had sent ambulances, though - during events like this one, local stations (i.e. Kendal, Kirby Stephen, Penrith and Lancaster) would have been tasked to the max. It would have taken a good 40 minutes for them to get to the incident site, mind you - its a long way.
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Julia



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

from the centre of Barrow it's way further than that
and Walney is an island - not quite the same place... as boring and dull I admit, but not the same place

pedantic must one be Wink
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Ella Sailyour



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:49 am    Post subject: Re: Virgin Train Crash In Lake District Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
A Virgin train has derailed and slid down an embankment in Cumbria.


I've seen and heard the news reports on the BBC as well Mark.

Ella
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AndyAndy2
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:55 am    Post subject: Re: Virgin Train Crash In Lake District Reply with quote

Ella Sailyour wrote:
mark occomore wrote:
A Virgin train has derailed and slid down an embankment in Cumbria.


I've seen and heard the news reports on the BBC as well Mark.

Ella


Ella - Hello. I've noticed you've made a few comments regarding Marks postings in this forum. This is the forum for news / current affairs. yes Marks first posts are the story itself but he's prompting us to reply and discuss.

If you dislike his posting's here then simply don't reply, look or even visit this particular forum as I do on occasion as I have no particular comment.

Cheers, Ella.
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Ella Sailyour



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:58 am    Post subject: Re: Virgin Train Crash In Lake District Reply with quote

AndyAndy2 wrote:
This is the forum for news / current affairs. yes Marks first posts are the story itself but he's prompting us to reply and discuss.


No he isn't. He's simply making a simple uninspiring statement and posting a link.

So what?

Ella
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Mark didn't start topics or post links there would not be many threads in this section, I can't see what the problem is.
As it happens I didn't know anything about this accident until I read it on here.
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Cherskiy



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, and mention of another incident involving a train hitting a car on a level crossing in Wales on the news this morning.... reminiscent of the incident my cousin's boyfriend was involved in the other week (a second 17-year old in the car that hit his train died in hospital a week ago last Wednesday).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/6394109.stm
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Ella Sailyour



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toggy tea slurper wrote:
If Mark didn't start topics or post links there would not be many threads in this section, I can't see what the problem is.
As it happens I didn't know anything about this accident until I read it on here.


Set your computer up to get the desktop news alerts and you'll get the news stories even before Mark does!

Ella
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John W



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ella,

Mark's posting has 23 replies and 118 views. So he has made a successful discussion.

Ella, I notice you rarely make a discussion but just get folk whinging back at you. You find it hard to contribute here, so try harder, think before you post Wink
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Highlander



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was also a level crossing crash in Ayrshire on Friday morning where unfortunately the van driver was killed. Probably did not get national coverage because it happened before the Friday evening crash.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/6393359.stm
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Ella Sailyour



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John W wrote:
Ella, I notice you rarely make a discussion but just get folk whinging back at you. You find it hard to contribute here, so try harder, think before you post Wink


Well, no, not really. The reason why I poke fun at some (but not all) of Mark's posts is that he often makes a simple statement followed by a link which leads the reader asking: "And.............?".

This is why I question the motive. I'm up for debate about a particalar issue of the day, but it would be nice to see a more stimulating prompt than a mere cut 'n paste quote which alludes to nothing and appears to be little more than a device for attention-seeking.

Each to his/her own, I guess...

Ella
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Highlander



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you mean "North Bucks Poster enjoys the attention brought about by annoying other posters".

Each to his/hers I guess............. Cool
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cut and paste topics and usually add my comments below which I have and explained the design of these new trains. It did lead me to post another link about them, but I am interested in them and I thought it would be best to post a link so people can read in their leisure about them and about the story.

I think the BBC websites are quite informed to post links across here and I don't post every single news link.

Instead of arguing Ella, about whether I should or shouldn't post links maybe you could say 'well that was a bad accident, network rail need to sort things out to stop this happening again'... blah blah or something along those lines? ( excuse the pun ) Wink
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John W



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said Mark. Your postings are certainly more interesting than Ella's. So if Ella thinks yours are poor then his are poorer Laughing

I saw a clip on TV of railway points with a tent partly round them. I'm just guessing but dodgy pounts normally get ripped apart in high speed crashes, those looked very intact, unless they were ones further down the line being examined.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems like a miracle that there weren't more people killed or injured, I heard that the driver probably saved a lot of lives with his actions.
I wish the injured a speedy recovery, condolences to the family of the lady who was not so lucky. Sad
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems the points in question were last inspected only a couple of weeks ago, according to the boss of Network Rail, John Armit. Does anyone else think that having separate companies running maintenance (but subcontracting work out) and operating rolling stock is a recipe for disaster?

NR subcontract work out to the likes of Balfour Beatty and Jarvis. One of NR's directors was once finance director of BB - which got slapped for H&S shortcomings re the Heathrow Tunnel collapse and the Rivenhall rail disaster - they were fined £1.2M for the former, the largest H&S fine levied up to that time. Armit himself chaired Costain who didn't exactly have a good H&S record - remember the gantry at the Avonmouth bridge that fell, killing four workmen?

The present arrangement may suit New Labour policy, but it's slowly killing the UK railway system.
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Mindda



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not post often here, but do read a good deal of the board.

I do so hate the sort of posts which come over as sarcastic and snidey - indeed, downright nasty - and they do put people off contributing. They are unnecessary and unkind. Please let's do without them here, or you will lose more possible contriutors again. People may not post as you or I would, or word things as you or I would, but a little tolerance of the other ways people do things and fewer unpleasant responses might not come amiss. Smile
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Behind Geddon's Wall



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The main and fortunate thing is the the loss of life was not greater, although the injuries are known to be serious. For example, one person needing neurosurgery and the driver needing to be in hospital for at least a month.

Is it that the design of carriages is now safer? I ask the question because there used to be an issue with safety.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cherskiy wrote:
Seems the points in question were last inspected only a couple of weeks ago, according to the boss of Network Rail, John Armit. Does anyone else think that having separate companies running maintenance (but subcontracting work out) and operating rolling stock is a recipe for disaster?

NR subcontract work out to the likes of Balfour Beatty and Jarvis. One of NR's directors was once finance director of BB - which got slapped for H&S shortcomings re the Heathrow Tunnel collapse and the Rivenhall rail disaster - they were fined £1.2M for the former, the largest H&S fine levied up to that time. Armit himself chaired Costain who didn't exactly have a good H&S record - remember the gantry at the Avonmouth bridge that fell, killing four workmen?

The present arrangement may suit New Labour policy, but it's slowly killing the UK railway system.


Agree with you Chersk. I think the first thread was pulled when the Conservatives privitised the railway network.
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't like to speculate to much, but the bolts could have come away whilst the bogies were going over the points? Or they wern't put in right or not at all? The initial report is due today..

Last edited by mark occomore on Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SantaFefan



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pin was pulled on British Railways back in the 60's.

Top quality British workforce and products; all to the same British standards. The best in the world by far, all mutilated to save money.

Everybody knew their job and woe betide anybody who got it wrong with the yard or gang foreman.
People worked hard on a regular basis and needed the money to support their families. Job for life, that counted for something.

From the programmes and information we see now of the shoddy workmanship and "here one minute and there the next" sub contracting workforces, I'd be nervous of travelling at that speed over today's trackage.

Why do we have to travel so fast anyway in this postage stamp sized country of ours??
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Ella Sailyour



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
I wouldn't like to speculate to much, but the bolts could of come away whilst the bogies were going over the points?


I'm sure they could of, Mark.

Ella
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Cherskiy



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SantaFefan wrote:
The pin was pulled on British Railways back in the 60's.


I suppose Beeching had a lot to answer for, too, closing down so many branch lines. The Waverley Line is reopening in Scotland in 2011(?) - Edinburgh-Galashiels/Tweedbank (and possibly down to Carlisle eventually).

Nowadays, with people being told they should use the train instead of their car, there are only so many routes available - if an incident like this one occurs, either long diversions are necessary or the train company uses replacement buses!
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bar and bolts could be under the carriages? It would conclude that they were either not fixed correctly, or just broke when the bogies went over due to wear and tear? Remember the country has had some bad weather over recent months. I wonder what time the previous train went over the same piece of track which could have broken it?
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