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Two 48 Hour Postal Strikes
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mark occomore



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:11 am    Post subject: Two 48 Hour Postal Strikes Reply with quote

Postal workers are set to launch their next series of UK-wide strikes, which it is feared could disrupt deliveries into the middle of next week.

Last-minute talks are expected between the Communication Workers' Union and Royal Mail in a bid to reach a deal.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7027142.stm

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gfloyd



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Postal workers on strike? Will anybody notice the difference. Laughing
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iwarburton



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This really is a bad idea. It's so easy to find alternatives today.

Ian.
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SantaFefan



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Digging their own grave.
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Helen May



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My sentiments exactly SanteFe!

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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's like the Tube strikes trying to hold the general public to ransom. Business will stop using the post office to send mail via them.
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firewirefred
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
It's like the Tube strikes trying to hold the general public to ransom. Business will stop using the post office to send mail via them.


Nothing to do with that good old Tory expression "Holding the public to ransom". Perhaps the Post Office is holding the public to ransom by walking away from the negotiating table?

Let's not forget that whatever the reasons for the action, people in this country have a right to strike when in dispute with their employer. I personally think that they're making a big mistake as well, but I don't think it's right to use the one-sided line about public and ransom. That's just silly.
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Briant



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a retired postman, I can tell you all that the blame lies with the employer. ie The Government who have the power to end this now, as they are the employer. They are instead closing down Post Offices and sacking thousands of staff so they can privatise it. Thirty hours a week for new staff contracts means smaller pensions and working five years longer just to break even. Royal Mail took a FIFTEEN year pensions break when they made no contributions to the fund, while the postmen/women carried on paying in for the whole period. That is why there is a huge gap in the fund and why the hatchet men have been brought in to balance the books.
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe the government is to blame for this, but at the end of the day it's going to hit business and they will find other ways to post their mail and the post office will lose in the end.
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gfloyd



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
Maybe the government is to blame for this, but at the end of the day it's going to hit business and they will find other ways to post their mail and the post office will lose in the end.


Difficult to know who is worst: the management or the staff. The staff were always notorious for trying to get something for nothing & fiddling their hours, dumping post, etc.
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Striking is a waste of time as you don't always get a full backing as most members stay at home and you get only a handful or hard nuts of the company. Personally it hits them as they don't get paid either.
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firewirefred
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
Striking is a waste of time as you don't always get a full backing as most members stay at home and you get only a handful or hard nuts of the company. Personally it hits them as they don't get paid either.


And it makes a clear statement. And something has to be done one way or another. And it means that a compromise has to be reached which might not otherwise be reached.

And striking isn't always "a waste of time", either. Of course strikers don't get paid for the time they're out, but that's the risk they take.
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gfloyd



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

firewirefred wrote:


And striking isn't always "a waste of time", either. Of course strikers don't get paid for the time they're out, but that's the risk they take.


It may have worked in the past when it was a monopoly. Today it is only hastening the [seemingly inevitable] demise of the post office.
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firewirefred
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gfloyd wrote:
firewirefred wrote:


And striking isn't always "a waste of time", either. Of course strikers don't get paid for the time they're out, but that's the risk they take.


It may have worked in the past when it was a monopoly. Today it is only hastening the [seemingly inevitable] demise of the post office.


But it is raising the debate about the way the organisation is run - at our expense.
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Briant



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excuse me, ernie, but your generalisation is incorrect. The postmen I worked with for over thirty years were excellent people. The 'dumping' you refer to was done by 'casuals' who were brought in from agencies to cover holidays and staff shortages. My customers used to say they could set their clocks by me, when we did two deliveries of course, so how I could 'fiddle' my hours you will have to explain.
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firewirefred
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gfloyd wrote:
It may have worked in the past when it was a monopoly. Today it is only hastening the [seemingly inevitable] demise of the post office.


I'd hate to think how much a basic letter rate will be if the Royal Mail were disbanded altogether and opened up 100% to commercialism. They'd we'd relaise what we had.

And, incidentally, we've had the same postman for 10 years or more. He's a marvellous chap. He knows who lives where, and when something is wrongly addressed he knows exactly where it should go. I'm grateful to him for "correctly redirecting" an envelope containing a cheque for over £2,000 from a customer, recently! Some of the useless temps wouldn't do that - some of them can't even read, going by the stupid mistakes they make.

It's amzing what you miss when it's gone.
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you go onto the post office website you are able to fill in a " Customer satisfactory survey" which pops up.. Shocked
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iwarburton



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is Post Office management being naive or arrogant in saying that it doesn't need Government intervention in the current dispute with its workers?

Its own handling of this increasingly bitter dispute doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

Ian.
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Rachel
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone offered the postmen "use of the Swivel Chair and to take it home at the weekends?"
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gfloyd



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7032582.stm

What are "Spanish practices"?

So the postmen are upset because they are being made to work the hours they are paid for. Jeez, life is tough for some Rolling Eyes
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My mate used to be a postman and never had time for a break. Actually you eat and drink whilst on your round. He never used to go back to the office unless necessary. Once you have left the office with the mail you should be trusted to be able to finish your job, whether it takes you one hour or six hours. It's a job where you work on your own.

When the London tube staff go on strike at least they talk, so why is it taken so long for postal service to do this? The government want to sell it off?
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firewirefred
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
When the London tube staff go on strike at least they talk, so why is it taken so long for postal service to do this?


They've been talking for years, to no avail. The sticking point is pensions.

mark occomore wrote:
The government want to sell it off?


It's not a saleable concern right now.
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gfloyd



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

firewirefred wrote:


It's not a saleable concern right now.


Give it away then.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gfloyd wrote:
firewirefred wrote:


It's not a saleable concern right now.


Give it away then.


No. I've invested too much money in Royal Mail over the years and I'm damned if I'm letting them give it away!!!
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

firewirefred wrote:
gfloyd wrote:
firewirefred wrote:


It's not a saleable concern right now.


Give it away then.


No. I've invested too much money in Royal Mail over the years and I'm damned if I'm letting them give it away!!!



It's not down to you. If it's not resolved then it will be sold off. Why should the government keep these companies a float if they can't talk. They need to get their men and women back to work and stop this, as it's costing business money.
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firewirefred
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
It's not down to you.


Yes it is. I own it.

mark occomore wrote:
If it's not resolved then it will be sold off.


You have that on good authority?

mark occomore wrote:
Why should the government keep these companies a float if they can't talk. They need to get their men and women back to work and stop this, as it's costing business money.


It's also costing workers' and workers' families money. Disputes are a two-sided affair, don't forget, and the employees have a right in law to strike in such situations.
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

firewirefred wrote:
mark occomore wrote:
It's not down to you.


Yes it is. I own it.

No you dont?



It's also costing workers' and workers' families money. Disputes are a two-sided affair, don't forget, and the employees have a right in law to strike in such situations.



Tough
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gfloyd



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
firewirefred wrote:
mark occomore wrote:
It's not down to you.


Yes it is. I own it.

No you dont?

It's also costing workers' and workers' families money. Disputes are a two-sided affair, don't forget, and the employees have a right in law to strike in such situations.



Tough


fred thinks he owns the post office now. That's why its such a mess then? Laughing
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SantaFefan



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do think that mangement have failed in their job if it's the case that a postman can do his round in two hours instead of the six allowed (or whatever the actual figures are)
Seems to me they should bring back two deliveries if thats the case, or employ part time postmen? you can't pay people to sit at home.
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adam Crozier failed at the FA now he's failing with the Post Office. It will be sold off as it's not a worthy company to be kept by the public purse.

It's a black hole now.
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gfloyd wrote:
mark occomore wrote:
firewirefred wrote:
mark occomore wrote:
It's not down to you.


Yes it is. I own it.

No you dont?

It's also costing workers' and workers' families money. Disputes are a two-sided affair, don't forget, and the employees have a right in law to strike in such situations.



Tough


fred thinks he owns the post office now. That's why its such a mess then? Laughing


He / she might have a black cat Laughing
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firewirefred
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
firewirefred wrote:
mark occomore wrote:
It's not down to you.


Yes it is. I own it.

No you dont?


We all own Royal Mail by virtue of the fact that we're all stakeholders in what is still a publically-owned body.


mark occomore wrote:
firewirefred wrote:
It's also costing workers' and workers' families money. Disputes are a two-sided affair, don't forget, and the employees have a right in law to strike in such situations.



Tough



And if you the right to strike is "tough" then that's your problem. If you don't like the law, then do something about changing it and prevent everyone from striking at all times under all circumstances. You might prefer a police state but I don't (Maggie did her best to achieve this back in 84, of course). Meanwhile, the law stands and the postal workers have a legal right to strike.

You might not like it but that's the way it is. And don't forget that a "dispute" is something that involves two parties, not one.
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SantaFefan



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strike - Blackmail, sometimes the same thing.
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firewirefred
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SantaFefan wrote:
Strike - Blackmail, sometimes the same thing.


Sometimes, perhaps, but certainly not always. The decision to strike is one that's very hard to take (I know, I've been there!). There are people who are running large corporations who are surely guilty of blackmail as well. Corporate investors and institutional shareholders are in a similar position..... they can make or break a business employing ordinary, hard-working people. So who's the blackmailer in that situation? And were those who risked all to call the General Strike in the 1920s guilty of blackmail? I think not - given what they achieved for all of us.

In a democracy you have to allow the right of people to withdraw their labour when in disputes of the Royal Mail kind, even if it means that people are inconvenienced.

gfloyd wrote:
So the postmen are upset because they are being made to work the hours they are paid for. Jeez, life is tough for some Rolling Eyes


Do some research. That is not what the dispute is about. It's a much more complex and wider set of issues that have all come to a head because (among other things) the Royal Mail has allegedly reneged on agreements it made some time ago.
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gfloyd



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

firewirefred wrote:

Do some research. That is not what the dispute is about.


You should try the same sometimes.

from BBC news:

Royal Mail worker David Wall, a postman with the Walton office in Liverpool, said hundreds of postal workers had gone back to the picket lines to protest against the changes to flexible working hours.

These included the end of the freedom to leave early once staff have finished their round.

He explained that the wildcat strikes were triggered by new Royal Mail rules, which they had not consented to, that prevented workers from starting work before 0600 BST and leaving before 1415 BST.

Historically, most postal workers begun their shift between 0500 BST and 0530 BST and were free to go when they had finished their round.

Mr Wall argued this loss of flexibility, and not pay, was the reason why he was on strike and said that he believed that was the case for most of his Royal Mail colleagues.
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firewirefred
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gfloyd wrote:
firewirefred wrote:

Do some research. That is not what the dispute is about.


You should try the same sometimes.

from BBC news:

Royal Mail worker David Wall, a postman with the Walton office in Liverpool, said hundreds of postal workers had gone back to the picket lines to protest against the changes to flexible working hours.

These included the end of the freedom to leave early once staff have finished their round.

He explained that the wildcat strikes were triggered by new Royal Mail rules, which they had not consented to, that prevented workers from starting work before 0600 BST and leaving before 1415 BST.

Historically, most postal workers begun their shift between 0500 BST and 0530 BST and were free to go when they had finished their round.

Mr Wall argued this loss of flexibility, and not pay, was the reason why he was on strike and said that he believed that was the case for most of his Royal Mail colleagues.


You made a comment about the "postal workers being made to work the hours they're paid for" and my response was correct in the context. The dispute isn't about that - it's about the degree of flexibility in working arrangements that's under dispute, and the fact that the Royal Mail has apparently reneged on a previous commitment.

Here's a statement from CWU:

http://www.cwu.org/news.asp?step=3&NID=1836

I talked to my postman, who lives near me and who I see in the local shops with his kids, who told me that he gets up at 3.30am and doesn't usually finish his rounds until 11.30am or mid-day - and he uses his own car to hop between walks even though he's not paid to.

So who do we believe?
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

firewirefred wrote:
gfloyd wrote:
firewirefred wrote:

Do some research. That is not what the dispute is about.


You should try the same sometimes.

from BBC news:

Royal Mail worker David Wall, a postman with the Walton office in Liverpool, said hundreds of postal workers had gone back to the picket lines to protest against the changes to flexible working hours.

These included the end of the freedom to leave early once staff have finished their round.

He explained that the wildcat strikes were triggered by new Royal Mail rules, which they had not consented to, that prevented workers from starting work before 0600 BST and leaving before 1415 BST.

Historically, most postal workers begun their shift between 0500 BST and 0530 BST and were free to go when they had finished their round.

Mr Wall argued this loss of flexibility, and not pay, was the reason why he was on strike and said that he believed that was the case for most of his Royal Mail colleagues.


You made a comment about the "postal workers being made to work the hours they're paid for" and my response was correct in the context. The dispute isn't about that - it's about the degree of flexibility in working arrangements that's under dispute, and the fact that the Royal Mail has apparently reneged on a previous commitment.

Here's a statement from CWU:

http://www.cwu.org/news.asp?step=3&NID=1836

I talked to my postman, who lives near me and who I see in the local shops with his kids, who told me that he gets up at 3.30am and doesn't usually finish his rounds until 11.30am or mid-day - and he uses his own car to hop between walks even though he's not paid to.

So who do we believe?



Thats ok as mail should be delivered before midday as the post office agreed to have only one mail delivery.

I received my mail today and I think that was for last Thursdays round? So the mail for Saturday, Monday and Tuesday will be delivered over the next few days? I'm sure if the postmen and women were concerned about trying to clear the back log and losing money over the strike period then they would have made a special trip today for all the back logged mail?

What will it be work to rule? It's takes two for a dispute.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
Thats ok as mail should be delivered before midday as the post office agreed to have only one mail delivery.


Royal Mail (for that is the name of the operation) doesn't guarantee next day delivery - it aims to achieve a significant proportion. Obviously, this is an exceptional instance.

mark occomore wrote:
I received my mail today and I think that was for last Thursdays round? So the mail for Saturday, Monday and Tuesday will be delivered over the next few days? I'm sure if the postmen and women were concerned about trying to clear the back log and losing money over the strike period then they would have made a special trip today for all the back logged mail?


That isn't the concern of the delivery people though, is it? If their dispute is reasonable (as I believe it to be) then surely it's an organisational issue.

mark occomore wrote:
What will it be work to rule? It's takes two for a dispute.


It certainly does. You got that bit right.
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At least one thing your postie finishes at midday and the rest of his day to spend with his family.
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firewirefred
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
At least one thing your postie finishes at midday and the rest of his day to spend with his family.


It might be mid-day for you, but it's hardly mid-day for somebody who's up at 3.30 every morning! I'd say that was the end of the day. It's all relative.
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