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Ian Robinson
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Location: Chorley, Lancashire
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 Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| mark occomore wrote: | | The complaints are rising to about 500,000. |
Where do you get your figures from? Last I heard it was 5000 (and most of those are probably Daily Mail readers who don't like Brand anyway). |
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Rachel
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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It would seem a little odd to me, to complain, if you didn't actually listen to the show, and were offended/upset by it, at the time.  It's a bit like complaining to a restaurant you've never eaten at, and saying, I've heard your food is really bad-I want the Chef's head on a plate! How many complaints landed at Radio 2 before this story hit the headlines? i.e. genuine complaints about the show, rather than the fox-hound “get Ross, & Brand”  complaints generated by the media interest.
How did you frame your complaints – just out of interest? |
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SantaFefan
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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Location: top of the cliffs in Norfolk
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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I don't agree there Rachel, I think licence payers have a right to complain about this theme in general even if they don't listen to the show.
It's all part of the opinion that the Beeb is dumbing down their service ( on R2 at least ) and that people such as Brand, Ross, Moyles and dare I say Evans ( although even I admit, there now seems to be a huge gulf between him and Brand/Ross ) shouldn't be on the Radio at all let alone being paid the preposterous salaries they're getting.
I used to like Ross but I genuinely think he's has pushed his luck too far of late. I mentioned last week about him making light of Hoodies and stabbings on his Saturday show. He should know better. 
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NickSheffield
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 508
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| SantaFefan wrote: | I don't agree there Rachel, I think licence payers have a right to complain about this theme in general even if they don't listen to the show.
It's all part of the opinion that the Beeb is dumbing down their service ( on R2 at least ) |
Saying that... in this era of listen again and multi-channels isn't there ALWAYS something to one's taste to listen to on the BBC networks - and providing for everyone is a very noble and egalitarian venture. So, one could argue that the very presence of Ross and Brand are symbolic of the Reithian vision of 'listener equality'. To be frank, I'll be happy just so long as I've got a CD to stick on for entertainment, but I have nothing but praise for the current state of the BBC. |
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Rachel
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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Ok I can see that Santa, but opinion and complaint are two very different things- we can all express an opinion on anything we wish to, ( that's the great thing about opinion  ) but to complain about something is a very personal excursion, and one which cannot really be embarked upon, unless you have experienced first hand, the fabric on which you base your complaint.
A complaint isn't like an election or a vote on something, you really do have to have grounds for your individual complaint. How has it affected you?
It is however, acceptable to add the weight of your opinion to an existing complaint from another person, but that isn't complaining- that is supporting something ( a complaint) that already exists. ..
well that's what I think anyway.... but what do I know? |
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Ian Robinson
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Location: Chorley, Lancashire
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| NickSheffield wrote: | | SantaFefan wrote: | I don't agree there Rachel, I think licence payers have a right to complain about this theme in general even if they don't listen to the show.
It's all part of the opinion that the Beeb is dumbing down their service ( on R2 at least ) |
Saying that... in this era of listen again and multi-channels isn't there ALWAYS something to one's taste to listen to on the BBC networks - and providing for everyone is a very noble and egalitarian venture. So, one could argue that the very presence of Ross and Brand are symbolic of the Reithian vision of 'listener equality'. |
Hmmm, but it couldn't it be said that each BBC service has it's own remit and style for all different tastes - and Brand's show isn't really in keeping with the demographic Radio 2 is supposed to be aimed at? If this was 6Music or Radio 1 there'd be less fuss (it would at least be expected) |
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MadeinSurrey
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 3130
Location: The Beautiful South
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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Rachel, it's quite simple: I complained beacuse Russell Brand is rude, unpleasant, nasty, obnoxious, vile and inconsiderate. I have had enough experience of his "humour" to avoid him at all costs, but I will not stand by and let things like this latest transgression go without protest.
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Rachel
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| MadeinSurrey wrote: | | Russell Brand is rude, unpleasant, nasty, obnoxious, vile and inconsiderate. |
Hmmmmmm that's more of an "observation" ( and one that I agree with) than a complaint MIS - but I guess I'm just being picky cos I used to deal with complaints as part of my old job. We worked really hard at keeping complaints to a minimum- companies and organisations hate complaints.
You can have a complaint and 500,000 letters of support but that is still just one complaint. |
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MadeinSurrey
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
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Location: The Beautiful South
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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Rachel, as far as I am concerned the more people who make the effort to complain the better if it means this awful stain on Radio 2 is removed. The "man" is ghastly, and I really hope he gets what he deserves : the sack. Jonathan Ross really should know better but I have long since given up hoping that he will get better as he gets older.
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Lord Evan Elpuss
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Ian Robinson wrote: | | If this was 6Music or Radio 1 there'd be less fuss (it would at least be expected) |
Ian, have a look at the 6 music 'Feedback' message boards: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mb6music/F1950413 in particular the George Lamb and 'Is Lesley Douglas fit for purpose?' threads. It seems a lot of 6 music listeners are unhappy with the direction Lesley's taken 6 music, similar to what she's done to Radio 2.
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NickSheffield
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 508
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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How about this as a way of dealing with things:
Keep Brand on his show this Saturday but, as guest presenter, have Lesley Douglas on. Now that would be interesting radio. |
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RockitRon
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 7646
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Helen May wrote: | There's one in the middle of the homepage Ron.
H |
Thank you, Helen.
Jokes about deteriorating eyesight on a postcard please...
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RockitRon
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7694921.stm
| Rachel wrote: | It would seem a little odd to me, to complain, if you didn't actually listen to the show, and were offended/upset by it, at the time. It's a bit like complaining to a restaurant you've never eaten at, and saying, I've heard your food is really bad-I want the Chef's head on a plate! How many complaints landed at Radio 2 before this story hit the headlines? i.e. genuine complaints about the show, rather than the fox-hound “get Ross, & Brand” complaints generated by the media interest.
How did you frame your complaints – just out of interest? |
Yes, as usual the number of complaints has ballooned with the exposure of the story all over the media and is now probably disproportionate to the number of listeners actually offended at the time, or even the number of listeners full stop.
All of which underlines the importance of the provision of some common sense, quality control and vetting at management level before the recording was allowed to be aired*, and of a swift apology/damage limitation exercise, rather than the slightly flippant utterance from Brand, once the original complaint was made. *We mentioned the same thing, at a slightly lower level, with the interview of Kerry Katona on ITV earlier in the week.
With Ofcom now involved one might expect some bloodletting should there be any censure or fine imposed. Whether it will be the protagonists, or the woman at the top, or someone not in possession of a full flak jacket, will be interesting to see.
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Rachel
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Blimey! Just watched the 4pm news on BBC News 24- this is their top story. There's been questions in the house. The Justice Minister isn't happy. Like I said earlier, once it goes outside your own department into the wider organisation, you're in trouble- the kind of trouble usually preceded with "big". It's at Government level now... so they're sure to mess it up for someone. |
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NickSheffield
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Rachel wrote: | | Blimey! Just watched the 4pm news on BBC News 24- this is their top story. There's been questions in the house. The Justice Minister isn't happy. Like I said earlier, once it goes outside your own department into the wider organisation, you're in trouble- the kind of trouble usually preceded with "big". It's at Government level now... so they're sure to mess it up for someone. |
I wonder if the story will make it on to this Thursday's 'Question Time'.
I only ask because until recently they had a link on their website linking to a clip from Jonathan Ross's radio show where Wossy extolls the virtues of QT.
Mind you, Dimbleby's live from Washington this week, so maybe not |
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SantaFefan
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 11258
Location: top of the cliffs in Norfolk
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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I hear Kate Aidy and Richard Allinson are on call.
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MadeinSurrey
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 3130
Location: The Beautiful South
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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With any luck Russell Braindead will be deported!
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NickSheffield
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| So Russell's latest show has now been removed from iplayer 'whilst the BBC reviews the situation'... if they've removed the show (even though it wasn't the offending show), surely that must mean Ross & Brand won't appear on their respective shows this week? |
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Helen May
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| SantaFefan wrote: | I had a quick vist to the BBC message boards last night. I didn't see anything to do with the Ross/Brand incident.
I suppose any posts would have been removed instantly? I'm tempted to try anyway if I can remember my password... |
There are some threads on the POV radio boards SanteFe.
H
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Ian Robinson
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Rachel wrote: | | Blimey! Just watched the 4pm news on BBC News 24- this is their top story. There's been questions in the house. The Justice Minister isn't happy. Like I said earlier, once it goes outside your own department into the wider organisation, you're in trouble- the kind of trouble usually preceded with "big". It's at Government level now... so they're sure to mess it up for someone. |
Yes, it's getting out of hand. Ofcom and the Government will blunder in and there'll be yet more regulation and self-flagellation from the Beeb. To what end? So that the Daily Mail and The Guardian and The Sun have less competition? |
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MadeinSurrey
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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Our beloved PM has said that it is up to the BBC to decide if Ross & Brand should be burnt at the stake.
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mark occomore
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Director of Music and Audio Tim Davie will be investigate Jonathan Ross and Russell Brand Saga. It will be investigated in the next few days. " He refused to comment if the shows will be on air this coming weekend?
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Andrew Sachs has acknowledged Ross has sent him flowers with an apology. He doesn't want to fuel the fire anymore, as he knows Ross is in serious trouble. He doesn't know if Brand has emailed him as he's not been on the computer today.
Last edited by mark occomore on Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:51 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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gfloyd
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Helen May wrote: |
There are some threads on the POV radio boards SanteFe.
H |
Just a few. 
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iain_smith
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SantaFefan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Helen May wrote: | There are some threads on the POV radio boards SanteFe.
H |
Thanks Helen, I'll have to Google it as I haven't been there before.
I placed a Ross & Brand topic on "The Flip Side" on the BBC boards and to my amazement, it's received replies and hasn't been removed! 
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gfloyd
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| MadeinSurrey wrote: | | Our beloved PM has said that it is up to the BBC to decide if Ross & Brand should be burnt at the stake. |
Well done or rare?
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Helen May
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Ian Robinson wrote: | | Rachel wrote: | | Blimey! Just watched the 4pm news on BBC News 24- this is their top story. There's been questions in the house. The Justice Minister isn't happy. Like I said earlier, once it goes outside your own department into the wider organisation, you're in trouble- the kind of trouble usually preceded with "big". It's at Government level now... so they're sure to mess it up for someone. |
Yes, it's getting out of hand. Ofcom and the Government will blunder in and there'll be yet more regulation and self-flagellation from the Beeb. To what end? So that the Daily Mail and The Guardian and The Sun have less competition? |
There don't need to be any more regulations, just a bit of common sense over what is decent and what is not.
H
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I said it live on air in the studio with Jeremy Vine on 10/3/2005 |
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mark occomore
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| They are both getting a interactive public flogging. |
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igs007
Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| NickSheffield wrote: | | SantaFefan wrote: | I don't agree there Rachel, I think licence payers have a right to complain about this theme in general even if they don't listen to the show.
It's all part of the opinion that the Beeb is dumbing down their service ( on R2 at least ) |
Saying that... in this era of listen again and multi-channels isn't there ALWAYS something to one's taste to listen to on the BBC networks - and providing for everyone is a very noble and egalitarian venture. So, one could argue that the very presence of Ross and Brand are symbolic of the Reithian vision of 'listener equality'. To be frank, I'll be happy just so long as I've got a CD to stick on for entertainment, but I have nothing but praise for the current state of the BBC. |
Good discussion! Providing for everyone may indeed remain a noble cause, but still we must ask if this is the sort of thing a public broadcaster - let alone any broadcaster - should be pursuing, whether in the name of providing something to eveyone's tastes, in the name of 'edgy' comedy, or in the name of entertainment itself.
I agree that listeners have every single right to complain, add to a complaint, however you say it. We should be grateful that today we are able to make our voices heard so easily (of course whether the Beeb takes much notice is still another point) compared to say 20 years ago. Mind you, would this sort of thing have happened 20 years ago on BBC radio?
While it may be getting slightly out of hand now what with Government yes men jumping on the bandwagon, we should not lose sight that this whole event was a misjudgement on the Beeb's behalf. It's now getting to the point where something HAS to happen and the BBC have to show they're taking action. Similar to the phone in 'scandal' last year.
While it isn't directly her fault (and she probably doesn't deserve to be punished even if a lot of the blame lies at her door), I'd still like to hear Lesley Douglas on Feedback on R4 and give her a grilling about her station. Not just this incident, but the general direction in which she is pulling this station - it all links in ultimately! |
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sheltster
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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Why are people that didn't listen to the show making complaints?
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John W
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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shelster,
You have to remember that thousands of Brand's listeners listen to his podcast and via iplayer, so you don't know how many of his listeners have complained.
Clearly more people than usual have listened this week, many even unaware of his show before, thanks to Youtube, and every complaint is valid.
John W |
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Ian Robinson
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| John W wrote: | | every complaint is valid. |
No they aren't. The show was broadcast at a specific time to an audience who know the sort of thing to expect. Just because a bunch of Daily Mail readers go and listen on YouTube (if indeed they have) doesn't make it OK - they're bound to take offence because it's not their sort of thing in the first place.
Now, I don't think Brand should have been on Radio 2 but 27,000 people have basically complained about him doing what he was hired for (admittedly to extreme levels). So it's right that the boss has gone, but level of persecution levelled at the bloke has been ridiculous. |
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sheltster
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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That's spot on Ian
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mark occomore
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| I do think the media and broadcasters need to stop playing the snippets from the show and let it calm down? They have got what they want, and goes to show the papers and even these forums are a little more powerful than the BBC. |
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John W
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 3367
Location: Warwickshire, UK
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Ian Robinson wrote: | | John W wrote: | | every complaint is valid. |
No they aren't. The show was broadcast at a specific time to an audience who know the sort of thing to expect. |
But the show was unacceptably obscene and has been for months. I have issued complaints against 5 of his shows.
| Quote: | Just because a bunch of Daily Mail readers go and listen on YouTube (if indeed they have) doesn't make it OK - they're bound to take offence because it's not their sort of thing in the first place.
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I don't read the Mail and thousands of complainants don't either. I was reading the Telegraph's internet reports long before I got round to checking out the Mail, and I closely watched Sky News who are right now exposing the whole fiasco of Radio 2 production and the very unacceptable influence of the Ross empire.
| Quote: | | So it's right that the boss has gone, but level of persecution levelled at the bloke has been ridiculous. |
He knows that many find his behaviour on TV disgusting, hoped he could do anything he pleased in the dark corner of R2's Saturday night. Complaints were ignored for two years. Now the nation could speak and be heard.
John W |
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igs007
Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Ian Robinson wrote: | | John W wrote: | | every complaint is valid. |
No they aren't. The show was broadcast at a specific time to an audience who know the sort of thing to expect. Just because a bunch of Daily Mail readers go and listen on YouTube (if indeed they have) doesn't make it OK - they're bound to take offence because it's not their sort of thing in the first place.
Now, I don't think Brand should have been on Radio 2 but 27,000 people have basically complained about him doing what he was hired for (admittedly to extreme levels). So it's right that the boss has gone, but level of persecution levelled at the bloke has been ridiculous. |
Yeah, it's a cliche nowadays to say that a 'bunch' of complainants were a 'bunch' of Mail readers - yawn. If people have complained about him doing what he was hired to do (which isn't the case anyway - he wasn't hired to cause offence of this nature, and many people - not all, of course - I suspect complained on a wider basis against various elements of the BBC) then fine - it's been simmering away for a while, as John W noted - so it shouldn't come as a surprise considering what he said. Even if there was a delayed reaction, to group those who complained as solely Mail readers implies only Mail readers have common sense and decency - that is certainly not the case! Besides, even if those who listened hardly complained, the show still breached BBC guidelines.
The guy has little to lose anyway - he'll do fine out of this whole farce anyway and, I read, is already in LA plotting his next steps up the ladder. Crazy, isn't it. Sadly, I still don't think he'll have learnt an ounce from this matter[/b] |
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Helen May
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 19382
Location: Cheshire
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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Yes it has been simmering away for some time and once people realised they were at last being listened to the rest joined in.
It's paid off (we hope <pray> ) and I just hope it will all settle down quickly and the Radio 2 can get on with it's job.
H
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I said it live on air in the studio with Jeremy Vine on 10/3/2005 |
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Ian Robinson
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:41 am Post subject: |
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Yes, it's been simmering away... but I still don't think it's right to complain about something you haven't heard and wasn't broadcast for you. Do you complain about CBBC shows because there's too much gunging and we're all grown-up licence fee payers who won't like that?
I've also complained about Brand in the past -- but only stuff I've actually heard. I didn't use this incident as another excuse.
Reading the transcripts in the paper made it seem a lot worse than it was. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying what they did was right or acceptable (and I'm largely happy with the outcome) but the reaction has been incredibly OTT.
When you've got lying hypocrite Piers Morgan taking the moral high ground and the Sun printing sex stories of Sachs' grand-daughter I don't understand why Brand and Ross are the only ones vilified. |
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Helen May
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:12 am Post subject: |
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I'm sorry but I do think it's right to complain that standards of decency have been breached once it has been published, whether you heard it or not.
It should have been acted upon far sooner and all this backlash and damage to the BBC could have been avoided. I suppose school half term holidays could be part of the cause.
I have resisted complaining on numerous other occasions but this should not have been broadcast, end of story.
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88 - 91 FM this is Radio 2 from the BBC!
I said it live on air in the studio with Jeremy Vine on 10/3/2005 |
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sheltster
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 61
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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If you listen to the incident, I honestly don't think it is anywhere near as bad as is made out in the paper. It was just a series of phone calls that Brand's core audience would have found to be funny and it has been blown completely out of proportion.
Why the government and Cameron are getting involved is totally beyond me? 
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