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Mark Lucas
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 Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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Well, getting back on topic, I hope Russell Brand is replaced with one of the following:
George Lamb
Russell Howard
Alan Carr and Justin Lee Collins
Ricky Gervais
Simon Amstell
or maybe Jonathan Ross will be moved to 9pm, you never know. If this is to happen, then I would welcome Danny Baker to Saturday mornings. |
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gfloyd
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 4861
Location: Here, There, Everywhere.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark Lucas wrote: | Well, getting back on topic, I hope Russell Brand is replaced with one of the following:
George Lamb
Russell Howard
Alan Carr and Justin Lee Collins
Ricky Gervais
Simon Amstell
or maybe Jonathan Ross will be moved to 9pm, you never know. If this is to happen, then I would welcome Danny Baker to Saturday mornings. |
The real question is why spend £200k on a 2 hour slot that attracts only 370,000 listeners (@ 50p per listener it would be cheaper to mail them a copy of Brands musings). Ken Bruce is on less money and gets 6m listeners and fills 12.5 hours minimum per week.
Surely something is wrong there? Why not put the resources into slots that people listen to?
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Mark Lucas
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| gfloyd wrote: | | Mark Lucas wrote: | Well, getting back on topic, I hope Russell Brand is replaced with one of the following:
George Lamb
Russell Howard
Alan Carr and Justin Lee Collins
Ricky Gervais
Simon Amstell
or maybe Jonathan Ross will be moved to 9pm, you never know. If this is to happen, then I would welcome Danny Baker to Saturday mornings. |
The real question is why spend £200k on a 2 hour slot that attracts only 370,000 listeners (@ 50p per listener it would be cheaper to mail them a copy of Brands musings). Ken Bruce is on less money and gets 6m listeners and fills 12.5 hours minimum per week.
Surely something is wrong there? Why not put the resources into slots that people listen to? |
You could argue that about other programmes on Radio 2: Big Band Special, The Organist Entertains, Listen to the Band, Sunday Half Hour, Russell Davies, Malcolm Laycock, David Jacobs, The Comedy Hour etc.
These programmes do not attract huge audiences, but are still on Radio 2. Are they value for money? Is Terry Wogan value for money? |
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gfloyd
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 4861
Location: Here, There, Everywhere.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark Lucas wrote: | | gfloyd wrote: | | Mark Lucas wrote: | Well, getting back on topic, I hope Russell Brand is replaced with one of the following:
George Lamb
Russell Howard
Alan Carr and Justin Lee Collins
Ricky Gervais
Simon Amstell
or maybe Jonathan Ross will be moved to 9pm, you never know. If this is to happen, then I would welcome Danny Baker to Saturday mornings. |
The real question is why spend £200k on a 2 hour slot that attracts only 370,000 listeners (@ 50p per listener it would be cheaper to mail them a copy of Brands musings). Ken Bruce is on less money and gets 6m listeners and fills 12.5 hours minimum per week.
Surely something is wrong there? Why not put the resources into slots that people listen to? |
You could argue that about other programmes on Radio 2: Big Band Special, The Organist Entertains, Listen to the Band, Sunday Half Hour, Russell Davies, Malcolm Laycock, David Jacobs, The Comedy Hour etc.
These programmes do not attract huge audiences, but are still on Radio 2. Are they value for money? Is Terry Wogan value for money? |
The combined cost of Big Band Special, The Organist Entertains, Listen to the Band, Sunday Half Hour, Russell Davies, Malcolm Laycock, David Jacobs would be less than Russell Brand
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Mark Lucas
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| That's becase Russell Brand is a big name in the entertainment world. He's hardly going to work for peanuts! |
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gfloyd
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark Lucas wrote: | | That's becase Russell Brand is a big name in the entertainment world. He's hardly going to work for peanuts! |
But that is my point. He is not worth what they are paying him (even before he brough the network to its knees).
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Mark Lucas
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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Well I beg to differ. I have no problem with the BBC recruiting decent, modern talent such as Russell Brand. Much better than Last Of The Summer Wine, a TV programme that I believe has run its course. Or Melodies for You (just my opinion of course).
What I regard as decent, you may regard as rubbish. That's the beauty of debate! |
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NickSheffield
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 508
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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Re the suggestion of Simon Amstell...
I thought he was fantastic sitting in for Mark Radcliffe about three Christmasses ago. Of course, he's become a bit more 'edgy' lately so some might not like him but I think he's one of the funniest presenters on the television at the moment (and previous experience suggests it transfers well to radio for him). |
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Cherskiy
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 3701
Location: near Amble, Northumberland
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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Keep the so-called entertainment personalities on the TV where they belong.... if people are so desperate to engage with them, there's plenty of shows there that they keep popping up on. The network should remain as a bastion of talented presenters who talk about the music they play first and foremost, rather than somewhere to parachute so-called celebrities who seem to bring nothing but controversy to R2.
I've always regarded R2 as a music station rather than an "entertainment" station - am I wrong?
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Lord Evan Elpuss
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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No I don't think you're wrong Cherskiy. I agree with your post. Let's bring back proper DJs and let the comedians do their stuff on the stage and TV and perhaps the Comedy hour.
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Mark Mayhew
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Could not agree more-Radio 2 should be all about the music with proper DJ's. |
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SantaFefan
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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Location: top of the cliffs in Norfolk
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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I agree in principle but where does Steve Wright fit in with this?
wait for it... 
His emmensely popular show isn't really music based but it's entertaining.
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Mark Mayhew
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 2897
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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It doesn't does it.
The SW show is certainly not about the music and is simply not entertainment either-in a word its garbage. |
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Cherskiy
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 3701
Location: near Amble, Northumberland
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| SantaFefan wrote: | I agree in principle but where does Steve Wright fit in with this?
wait for it...
His emmensely popular show isn't really music based but it's entertaining. |
Somehow I just knew someone would mention SW's name.... 
Sorry, Santa - I'd include him in the list of overblown celebs too. Whilst he's nowhere near as offensive as RB or JR, I've been offended by the fact he hosts a pseudo-"entertainment" show thinly disguised as afternoon radio for years! 
Mind you, I'll be offended if you agree with me, 'natch!
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SantaFefan
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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None taken..
but what about Wogan or Bruce? their shows are not music based either..
I think it would be a little dull if all the shows were purely music based.
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Cherskiy
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 3701
Location: near Amble, Northumberland
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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I'm inclined to agree with your definition of TW's show, but only so far since I'd suggest the Breakfast Show is a case apart.... (I'll hand-wave any suggestions of favouritism away, just watch me!) Ken's show is much more music-based, especially with the ROTW/AOTW plus TOMY formats - the only entertainment bit for me is the quiz.
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gfloyd
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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Radio 2 was an entertainment network for as long as it has been in existence. I dont know what Gloria Hunniford or Judith Charmers were if not parachuted tv stars. Similiarly Des Carrington started out as a tv star or what we would call today "an ex soap star"
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Cherskiy
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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Before my time, Ernie - I think I was listening to R4 and R5 back then after deserting R1.
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Ian Robinson
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Location: Chorley, Lancashire
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| SantaFefan wrote: | | but what about Wogan or Bruce? their shows are not music based either.. |
Bruce's show features Album of the Week, Single of the Week, Tracks of my Years, music news, and a quiz about pop music - of course it's music-based! |
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BDG
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 202
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think everyone can possibly like every single presenter on a Radio station. I think it's about extremes and what appeals to the majority. What represents value for money. Someone made a good point (can't remember who) that RB was on a Saturday night when people who were likely to listen were probably out partying.
I must admit I can't say I would be bothered if the Organist Entertains went but I'm sure it appeals to a few people and probably doesn't cost much. There has to be some diversity.
Night
B X |
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John W
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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Location: Warwickshire, UK
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| BDG wrote: | Someone made a good point (can't remember who) that RB was on a Saturday night when people who were likely to listen were probably out partying.
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Me miss! It was ME!!!
It is true though, eh?
I recall in the early days of R2 that Saturday night often had a light music concert from 8.00-10.00pm, and it had a decent audience I'm sure because fans of gentle music would be staying in rather than go to the bingo or drink six pints!
Most of Brand's fans are paaaaarty aaanimals, just have to be out on a Saturday, hence his <0.5k audience.
P.S. We were supposed to go to a Halloween party tonight but it has been peeing down since about 5.00pm and that put us off. BUT then one of my wife's friend's phoned about 9.30pm to see if she was in and within minutes she was dressed and off to WALSALL with two mates to an OLD SKOOL SOUL NIGHT event.
Lonesome me. But I did enjoy part of Alex Lester's show 
John W |
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Mark Lucas
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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John, that was decades ago. Are you suggesting Radio 2 suddeny steps back in time just to cater for a minority of listeners? From what I can gather, Bob Harris is very popular on Saturday nights.
People have said that we are an ageing population, and as such, Radio 2 should reflect this. Yes, we are an ageing population, but many people who are getting older grew up listening to Radio 1 and the Pirates. They like The Beatles, The Kinks, The Beach Boys, The Rolling Stones, The Who, Pink Floyd etc.
It's a myth that all older people want to tune into Bing Cosby, Beethoven and Frank Sinatra. The older programmes on Radio 2 do not necessarily appeal to everyone in their 50s and 60s. You compare the popularity of Sounds of the Sixties to Melodies for You.
Paul Gambaccini revealed during his interview with Nicky Campbell on 5 Live last Friday that Brian Matthew has the biggest audience share than any other presenter on Radio 2. Brian Matthew is doing an outstanding job. The popularity of his show, compared to Radio 2's Sunday night programmes, says it all.
You say that Russell Davies/Malcom Laycock/David Jacobs pull in a combined 500k. That's nowhere near as big as Brian Matthew's 4 million. |
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Helen May
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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Location: Cheshire
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark Lucas wrote: | | It's a myth that all older people want to tune into Bing Cosby, Beethoven and Frank Sinatra. |
I wouldn't want whole programnes of them but it wouldn't harm to have a few of them slotted during some of the other shows.
H
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Mark Lucas
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Helen,
Sarah Kennedy, Terry Wogan, Steve Wright and Michael Ball occasionally play "classics". In fact, Stuart Maconie, who was sitting in for Ken Bruce, played a Sinatra track last Monday.
I guess there's nothing wrong with classics being thrown in here and there so long as it doesn't become obsessive. |
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John W
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 3367
Location: Warwickshire, UK
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark Lucas wrote: | Big Band Special, The Organist Entertains, Listen to the Band, Sunday Half Hour, Russell Davies, Malcolm Laycock, David Jacobs, The Comedy Hour etc.
These programmes do not attract huge audiences, but are still on Radio 2. Are they value for money? Is Terry Wogan value for money? |
Mark,
You appear not to understand the concept of Public Service Broadcasting. Value for money hardly comes into it except that licence payers know that their money is intended to create a range of programmes to cater for all listeners and so any listener should expect only about 20% of R2's output will appeal to them. It doesn't matter if half a million or 5 million tune into David Jacobs. The station must meet it's purpose.
Unfortunately it seems Lesley Douglas measured success on listener figures, she went all out to set the R2 schedule up to get maximum listeners, thinking that alone would keep her in her job and set her on to becoming director general of the future, or whatever her ambition was.
Her schedule shaping alienated many over 40s and the many people who don't want to listen to pop now find Radcliffe & Maconie hogging the traditional specialist slots. So pop lover's find 70% of R2 appealing while someone like myself gfinds only 10% appealing and nothing appealing if I'm working from home.
Yes folks like me grew up with the Beach Boys, David Bowie, T-Rex but people's music tastes develop over thirty years and they prefer to hear something different, not just what they grew up with at school.
Anyway, comparing the popularity of Bob Harris with Melodies For You is pointless. You can't axe a show for having less than 1 million listeners. If that was the case Brand's show would have been axed last year and the station would be switched off between midnight and 5.00am
Try and understand what Public Service Broadcasting is all about Mark, then you'll understand why so many people are unhappy with the R2 daytime schedule and the loss of prime time specialist shows.
John W |
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Mark Lucas
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| John W wrote: | | Mark Lucas wrote: | Big Band Special, The Organist Entertains, Listen to the Band, Sunday Half Hour, Russell Davies, Malcolm Laycock, David Jacobs, The Comedy Hour etc.
These programmes do not attract huge audiences, but are still on Radio 2. Are they value for money? Is Terry Wogan value for money? |
Mark,
You appear not to understand the concept of Public Service Broadcasting. Value for money hardly comes into it except that licence payers know that their money is intended to create a range of programmes to cater for all listeners and so any listener should expect only about 20% of R2's output will appeal to them. It doesn't matter if half a million or 5 million tune into David Jacobs. The station must meet it's purpose.
Unfortunately it seems Lesley Douglas measured success on listener figures, she went all out to set the R2 schedule up to get maxumum listeners, thinking that alone would keep her in her job and set her on to becoming director general of the future, or whatever her ambition was.
Her schedule shaping alienated many over 40s and the many people who don't want to listen to pop now find Radcliffe & Maconie hogging the traditional specialist slots. So pop lover's find 70% of R2 appealing while someone like myself gfinds only 10% from home.
Yes folks like me grew up with the Beach Boys, David Bowie, T-Rex but people's music tastes develop over thirty years and they prefer to hear something different, not just what they grew up with at school.
Anyway, comparing the popularity of Bob Harris with Melodies For You is pointless. You can't axe a show for having less than 1 million listeners. If that was the case Brand's show would have been axed last year and the station would be switched off between midnight and 5.00am
Try and understand what Public Service Broadcasting is all about Mark, then you'll understand why so many people are unhappy with the R2 daytime schedule and the loss of prime time specialist shows.
John W |
Hi John, and thanks for your reply.
I have said this a number of times on here: I am in a minority on this forum who supported Lesley Douglas and the changes she made to Radio 2. She brought a lot of good talent to Radio 2 (Mark Radcliffe, Russell Brand, Chris Evans, Dermot O'Leary, Pete Mitchell, Claudia Winkleman, Aled Jones, Elaine Paige, Michael Ball) and restructed the station. Whether people like to accept it or not, the vast majority of the changes Lesley made to the network have been a success.
Jim Moir made the first changes to Radio 2 by reposotioning it. Moir was fantastic and most of the changes he made were successful. Douglas continued the trend, though she went one step further by recruiting younger talent. She also built new programming around existing oines.
Radcliffe and Maconie have been a success on weeknights. Some people did criticise this move, accusing Radio 2 of trying to compete with commercial sectors. The thing is, Lesley left old favourites on the network
(Friday Night is Music Night, Melodies for You, David Jacobs etc).
I don't believe Lesley Douglas has alienated a great majority of listeners, otherwise 13 million wouldn't be tuning in.
Regarding Bob Harris, he is a radio God. Yes, Lesley did tamper with some parts of the schedule, but thankfully, she left Bob Harris alone. As for Melodies for You, I don't like Alan Titchmarsh or his presentation. I remember when he was a regular on the old Gloria Hunniford programme. |
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John W
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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Location: Warwickshire, UK
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark Lucas wrote: | I don't believe Lesley Douglas has alienated a great majority of listeners, otherwise 13 million wouldn't be tuning in.
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I didn't say she had alienated a great majority of listeners. She has alienated those who prefer other genres of music, not old pop, not current chart stuff which is what is heard 7.00am - 7.00pm every weekday and 8.00-10.00pm most evenings.
John W |
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Rachel
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark Lucas wrote: |
I have said this a number of times on here: |
Steady on Mark, you joined only two days ago.
"It's only a minority if you look at it from the outside"
Last edited by Rachel on Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mark Lucas
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, the thing is John, nothing stays the same forever. We have to accept that times have changed and Radio 2 is reflecting this. |
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John W
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 3367
Location: Warwickshire, UK
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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Yes times are changing, people get older and they don't just want to listen to pop music 
Remember that pop/chart fans also have Radio 1, 6music and 1extra, and much of the commercial stations have the same playlists.
A huge imbalance against the non-pop genres of music.
Minority musical tastes can't get good service from commercial stations which is why we have the BBC, but they are letting down most of the specialist listeners.
John W |
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Helen May
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 19382
Location: Cheshire
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark Lucas wrote: | Helen,
Sarah Kennedy, Terry Wogan, Steve Wright and Michael Ball occasionally play "classics". In fact, Stuart Maconie, who was sitting in for Ken Bruce, played a Sinatra track last Monday.
I guess there's nothing wrong with classics being thrown in here and there so long as it doesn't become obsessive. |
I know that, I do listen to Radio 2 and have done so for more years that I'd dare to admit to, so I don't need to be lectured at thank you Mark. There is no need to attack with every post you make you know!
It's not only 'classics' that are missing but the more unusual tracks from albums other than those that happen to be in the charts at the moment. The playlist often contains about 50% of the same tracks that are on Radio 1's playlist. Something not quite right there I'd say..........
H
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I said it live on air in the studio with Jeremy Vine on 10/3/2005 |
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Mark Lucas
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I didn't "attack you". I responded to your posting. |
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Mark Lucas
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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Apparently, local BBC stations have been told to "get their act together" due to poor audience ratings. Quite a few local BBC stations offer poor quality. Also, some of them are stuck in some kind of timewarp. They need bringing into the 21st century.
This is what happened to Radio 2 under Moir and Douglas.
Perhaps it's time the BBC looked at its digital radio services and revamped them? A specialist station is needed, featuring the best of classics, popular classics, light music, easy listening, jazz, stage and screen, blues, folk, country, global music, opera.
Why not relaunch 6 Music into a specialist station and move the existing 6 Music shows onto Radios 1 and 2? |
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Helen May
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 19382
Location: Cheshire
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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As I said I've been a listener to R2 for many, many moons, although I used to dip back into Radio 1 at times, so there's no need to point out the obvious. You can come across as sounding somewhat aggressive at times!
H
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88 - 91 FM this is Radio 2 from the BBC!
I said it live on air in the studio with Jeremy Vine on 10/3/2005 |
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Mark Lucas
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, I apologise!  |
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