R2OK!

mark occomore · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK

The death of two passengers in a coach near London has put bus safety in the spotlight.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6230715.stm

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would expect these modern day coaches are fitted with seatbelts as this is the law and drivers have to wear them too. The National express driver has been arrested for reckless driving, but it is very rare and still is, like the trains and planes most reliable way to travel.

quickssandra · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 158 Location: Scotland

I still cringe every day my children get on the school bus.

It's not 'cool' to wear the seatbelt, so none of the children on the bus do.

I have asked my children to make sure they're not in the front seat, so there's less of a chance of being hurt, but I can't make them wear a seatbelt.

The speed the buses go at, one of these days there will be a major accident, I just hope my children aren't on that bus.

QS

SantaFefan · Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:08 pm Post subject:

I find this amazing! If the law states that seatbelts have to be worn; on a school bus in particular, why on earth don't the kids wear them?? whether it's cool or not!
They should be made to wear them or the driver should eject them from the bus surely? does anybody respect the law nowadays??

Ian Robinson · Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:10 pm Post subject:

Isn't this Mark's specialist subject?

quickssandra · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 158 Location: Scotland

Believe me, I've tried, the school's tried, the bus driver's tried, but none of them wear them on the school buses!

One of these days it will happen, but I'm sure not until a major incident occurs and then the police, schools and councils will have to do something about it. I suppose I could be more vocal about it to the council myself, but I've already waged one war with them regarding where the bus stops. so haven't started another yet!

Mark, what do the children on your bus do?

QS

mark occomore · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK

We have signs put up stating that the coaches are fitted with seatbelts and the company isn't reasonable if any children dont wear them. All coaches are fitted with seatbelts. Buses are not fitted with seatbelts if they are service buses as they could come out of service to pick up school kids. The problem with bus companys the same vehicle isn't used during term time so you would have to fit all the buses with seatbelts, which may have to come into law soon? County schools and councils should inforce this expecially on normal service buses who dont provide seatbelts, but it's all money to them. and revenue to the bus companys.

I dont know why so many people had bad injures as these modern day coaches should be fitted with role bars etc..

nod · Joined: 24 Dec 2006 Posts: 3558

'role bars' Laughing

Speed, that the cause of everything these days.

SantaFefan · Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:31 pm Post subject:

mark occomore · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK

SantaFefan · Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:10 pm Post subject:

You're right, sorry Mark... Shocked

anyway, why is everybody calling it a coach, it was a double decker wasn't it? it's a bus.

quickssandra · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 158 Location: Scotland

My sons don't say no to me or the teachers either. I'm sure if the teachers were sat on the bus all the way to school and home, they would all wear their seatbelts. [color=green]However there is only the bus driver and he is driving the coach.

I think they have enough to do telling the little darlings to sit down, as they (not my boys they're well behaved!) try to wander up and down the coach! I don't know how Mark and other drivers manage, it must be pure hell for them on some of these trips!

QS

quickssandra · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 158 Location: Scotland

Whoops, sorry Mark (slapped wrist) was replying to Santafefan, just went a bit off topic there, yet another of my bugbears to rant about!

QS Smile

SantaFefan · Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:24 pm Post subject:

Exactly. If the buses and trains had competent conductors who didn't put up with kids clowning around the situation would be more managed and troublemakers could be dealt with or humiliated.
Up until the 60's and 70's (roughly speaking) buses had conductors and Parks had keepers, businesses had nightwatchmen and coppers had torches and....

what was the question? Laughing

quickssandra · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 158 Location: Scotland

We were terrified of the Parky! Sad

QS

SantaFefan · Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:49 pm Post subject:

I rest my case...

where's it gone?

mark occomore · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK

What is vine on about? Should we have anything as high as the double decker coaches on the roads. Yes if the drivers are type trained to handle these vehicles.

quickssandra · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 158 Location: Scotland

Just how long have we had double deckers?

How many have been involved in crashes in that time?

There can't have been many, or they would have banned them years ago.

QS

mark occomore · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK

Vine is only talking from a journlist point of view. But some comments he makes, I wonder if he lives in the real world?

mark occomore · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK

Apparently there is a defect on the axle. One axle turns the back wheels, but the 3rd can lock up which makes the coach go out of control, and slide at 60 mph. No way anyone could control that when it happens.

It happened in 2003 French coach crash with the same make of coach.

http://www.neoplan.de/en/Products/Coaches/Skyliner/Skyliner.jsp

mark occomore · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK

A coach driver has been charged over the deaths of three people who were killed in a crash on the M25 near Heathrow Airport.

Philip Rooney, 48, of Lanarkshire, Scotland, faces three counts of causing death by dangerous driving.

The London-to-Aberdeen National Express coach overturned on the M4/M25 slip road on 3 January. Two people died soon after and a third died on 1 July.

Mr Rooney is due to appear before Reading magistrates on 31 July.

Christina Toner, 76, from Dundee, Scotland, and 30-year-old Yi Di Lin, a Chinese national, died in the crash.

John Carruthers, 78, of Chertsey, Surrey, died six months later in hospital on 1 July.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6912263.stm

Heloise · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 237

I recently travelled to and from London via National Express and they were very insistant that we used the seatbelts provided. Even walking up the aisle of the coach before we set off to check everyone had put their belt on.

Why don't kids wear their's. Same reason some play on train tracks, smoke and don't wear cycle helmets either. The arrogance of youth, the belief they are immortal, nothing will happen to them. Mix in a bit of peer pressure not to conform and basically a nagging adult hasn't got a hope Very Happy

_________________
Put some records on while I pour

John W · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 3367 Location: Warwickshire, UK

For a year just about everybody in our street moaned at a kid who would rev up his bike constantly and do wheelies on the wrong side of the road etc. He did wear a helmet but he didn't take a blind bit of notice of complaints.

Last month doing one of his stunts at 60mph in front of half a dozen six years olds he crashed into the wall round the corner from us. He's still in a coma. Apart from a couple of lads same age nobody outside his family has visited him.

Heloise · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 237

John W · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 3367 Location: Warwickshire, UK

heloise,

Yes of course I would want him to recover but have to be honest it's hard to have sympathy with someone who ignored every bit of common sense you told him.

When he was smaller his dad used to take him out with rifles to shoot, well I don't know what they went out to shoot, probably rabbits and crows, so many round here, easy targets, but the police stopped them doing that.

And yes we lost a friend's brother on a motorbike and as a kid a group of us found a motorcyclist who had crashed into a garden wall, pre-helmet days. He died in the ambulance.

Heloise · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 237

mark occomore · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK

A coach has overturned at an M1 service area in Buckinghamshire leaving at least five people seriously injured.

The National Express bus, going from Birmingham to Stansted, clipped a kerb and rolled entering Newport Pagnell services at 1600 BST, police said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/6976710.stm

John W · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 3367 Location: Warwickshire, UK

Hi Mark, I saw the aerial photo on TV.

In your experience what speed would he have to be doing to roll over when hitting that kerb? I guess his wheel was turned for taking the corner which would increase the chance of roll-over?

mark occomore · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK

John W · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 3367 Location: Warwickshire, UK

Oh dear, he's been arrested on suspicion of alcohol..... Rolling Eyes

gfloyd · Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:26 pm Post subject:

Unless there was a mini tornado at the time, that driver was going considerable faster than he should have been.
_________________
His name was ernie ........ and he drove the fastest milk cart in the west.....

Behind Geddon's Wall · Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:31 am Post subject:

I think the coaches are safe, It is the drivers that should cause concern.
_________________
Geddon

You simply mustn't blame yourself -- the days were perfect
And so were exactly what I was born to spoil
For I am the Rider to the World's End
Bound across the cinder causeway
From the furnace to the quarry
Through the fields of oil

gfloyd · Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:57 am Post subject:

Rachel · Guest

We used to walk to school. We travel by car, coach, bus, train and plane simply because we can. Fundamentally we have it all wrong when it comes to where we live, where we work and travel etc. Think local not global.

Don't make coaches, cars , trains and planes safer, just use them less or if you're lucky , don't use them at all. Have a safe lifestyle rather than run the risk of putting your life in the hands of a machine.

Apparently it's not cool to walk.

gfloyd · Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:56 am Post subject:

Rachel · Guest

That's another problem. Because its so quick and easy to gather news from all over the world, they do but they only broadcast the bad news:- nothing travels faster than bad news. So everyday you get the very worst news from where ever in the world bad things are happening. Quite franlkly I don't care if there's a hurricane on the otherside of the planet. Telling me about doesn't change anything. One palm tree bent double in the wind is much like any other. The horizontal reporter holding on for dear life with one hand on a railing both legs in the air saying everyone else evacuated 2 hours ago.

Well what are YOU doing there then?

nod · Joined: 24 Dec 2006 Posts: 3558

I like the stories where a reporter goes to a disaster area and then tells you it's cut-off and you can't get there . How'd they get there then ? Confused

and there's no-one to help, but they are stood there not helping Confused

SantaFefan · Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:50 pm Post subject:

mark occomore · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK

It doesn't do National Express any justice with the second accident in a year. I still say it's the safest way to travel. These coaches are new to the fleet and it's down to unexperienced drivers who can't handle them. It's slightly different if the driver was drunk at the wheel on this occasion.

Cherskiy · Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject:

Heard an account on R5 last night from one of the pax in the coach - she said something along the lines of "well, we were starting to go around the corners a bit too quickly so I decided to put my seatbelt on".

Having the driver of a car drunk and in charge of three others is bad enough, but a coach driver? Rolling Eyes

_________________
Author: “To the Ends of the Earth: A Snapshot of Aviation in North-Eastern Siberia, Summer 1992”
(Free to read via Kindle Unlimited)

Lord Evan Elpuss · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 3417 Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land