R2OK!

Themanfromuncle · Joined: 15 Sep 2010 Posts: 79 Location: Near The Beach

Well, what to say?

It's been coming to be fair.

The R2 message board has been lost by it's own moderation team and Host I'm sorry to say. Personally, Peta has always been nothing short of polite and helpful to me, but I do think the rules of the game changed down the years, and the moderation became completely confusing, if not bordering on ridiculous at times. And Peta, well, she seemed inclined to favour the pet project which caused her problems she should have quashed a long time ago.

Problem is, the BBC need to properly define the word 'transparency'. They seem to change the definition of the word almost on a weekly basis. You cannot provide a service and then not accept any criticism of said service and indeed adopt a stance where by you delete any form of realism applied to your service structure and deliverance.

I've seen some perfectly reasonable questions with regard the moderation and a certain Mr. Nelson, which, if needs be, could have been taken to an email in a professional manner. To leave it to stew on a public forum is asking for trouble.

I'm not a paranoid person but I have to say I find the tolerance of Mr. Nelson leading me to believe not everything was fair in love and war in his regard. In fact, I smell a rat. He has some form of connection to someone, somewhere in all of this to have been allowed to perpetuate what he did.

Oh well, the BBC can't have it both ways, and as such are not having it any way at all now. Nobody got badly injured in the process, but it sure as hell is a shame although I fear all too indicative of the stick waving corporation type attitude we've seen on that board.

We can but move on my friends.....

ColinB · Guest

Yes, I've always smelled the proverbial rat, too. I joined the R2MB several years ago at a time when Mr. N was using an untold number of aliases with usernames such as "Fridays-and-Saturday-Evenings-on-R2-are-crap" in addition to "Larry Mann", "Phil Urupitas" and a million more, and I couldn't help noticing that this character was pushing for the sort of changes that have - in the main - materialised.

He pushed and pushed and pushed to Get Sarah Kennedy axed (to use his most famous word) and look what's happened? (Okay - we don't she's been axed, but gone under a cloud she most certainly has, which might amount to the same thing).

Yes....... I can smell a rat, as well.

BTW - the last time I was banned from the MB I posted a question that simply asked why "he" was allowed to get away with such posts as the one that preceded mine, and that surely it contravened all of the BBC messageboard rules. His post stayed, mine was removed.... and I was banned.

A rat there is to be smelled.

Soulsister · Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:57 pm Post subject:

I've never had any problems with Peta either but then I've tended to stay over on the Your Music board which has been dying on its arse for months if I'm honest, although enough good posters were still staying around to make it worth a look in.

I've drifted over to the News and Views more of late, out of boredom more than anything and I have been a bit taken aback at some of Peta's responses to posters like H and others on there. Couldn't agree more about Scott - who seemed to get away with absolute murder. Without getting into conspiracy theories and all that, it was almost like he was a plant - put on there to deliberately wind up the natives. I dunno - but summat wasn't quite right for sure and he is conspicuous by his absence so far today.

With Peta its the constant defence of the party line and the trite responses to genuine questions that have wound me up today. The whole way this closure was announced absolutely stinks. One post on a Tuesday saying it's going to close on a Friday - when there are people who have been posting on that board (me included) for donkey's years and everyone's supposed to just go 'oh ok' without so much as a whimper of protest - hence my rather strident posts today. Good to see they are giving it large over on the 6music board as well ... not that it will make the blindest bit of difference. I dunno about Auntie - the BBC has become like some sinister old Uncle, throwing its weight around, dictating the terms, doing pretty much what it likes, and getting away with it.

ColinB · Guest

Soulsister · Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:04 pm Post subject:

Reading your posts Col - you seem to have a bit of history on the R2 board. What name did you post under if you don't mind me asking. I've been around there since the Stone Ages, but I don't recognise your handle?

becky sharp · Joined: 01 Dec 2008 Posts: 6851

Was like banging your head against the proverbial wall saying anything against the golden boy.....fair took my breath away at times what he was allowed to get away with....as well as being seemingly abetted with in some circumstances.

ColinB · Guest

Barty · Joined: 22 Aug 2010 Posts: 115

Soulsister · Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:13 pm Post subject:

I remember Billbored!! Are you the one who used to have all the argy bargies with Lonegroover? I used to love them!

If it was you ... you didn't half give as good as you got. Excellent stuff!

It used to be a right laugh on there in the good old days. Some real characters, wits and wags. I used to love going on there reading some of the convos.

Laughing

Soulsister · Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:14 pm Post subject:

I remember Billbored!! Are you the one who used to have all the argy bargies with Lonegroover? I used to love them!

If it was you ... you didn't half give as good as you got. Excellent stuff!

It used to be a right laugh on there in the good old days. Some real characters, wits and wags. I used to love going on there reading some of the convos.

Laughing

ColinB · Guest

SantaFefan · Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:19 pm Post subject:

Bill Bored eh? Laughing

I didn't know that...yes, you were one of my favourite wind up merchants to Scotty and Loony too! Razz

_________________
Johnnie Walker read out my message on Pirate Radio! Very Happy

13/8/07
I have heard how radio should be.

ColinB · Guest

Soulsister · Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:25 pm Post subject:

Soulsister · Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:35 pm Post subject:

There used to be a brilliant poster on the Music board. I dunno if anyone remembers him 'Geminid' his moniker was, not our very own Geminiman who is still around.

It was worth going on there just to read his posts. Sharp as a tack he was and as funny as hell. I'd be crying with laughter sometimes reading his posts and pretty good taste in music as I recall.

There have been some great posters down the years .... and good to see that some of them are over here.

SS
x

ColinB · Guest

Having several computers on the go simultaneously doesn't help with concentration, either. I have an Apple Mac and Windows 7 PC side-by-side, mostly for high-volume number crunching and stuff, and then a Windows laptop handy. Often, I can swing over to my laptop when the other machines are working and then forget about the time!

As I write (on my Mac) the PC to my right is conforming a pile of very big HD video files for a training website - so plenty of time for "distractions" (and yet another cup of coffee. With chocolate cake. Or maybe some choc-chip cookies baked by my wife's cousin......). Smile

Ally Gory · Joined: 15 Sep 2010 Posts: 72

Hello all.

I saw this forum being mentioned on the News and Views board today, which I continued to visit after I too was banned. As others experienced, I had the temerity to challenge the removal of my and other's posts when considerably worse, always from the same source, remained.

I noticed recently Mr Nelson even felt compelled (or was instructed) to apologise a couple of times for wandering beyond even his limits. How on earth that could be excused I don't know, but I'd tired of reregistering via disposable e-mail addresses, not least because it was a struggle to remember who I was this time.

I kept copies of some of the inconsistencies and submitted them to the complaints thing. Some weeks later, the response I received was in effect "You don't want to address this complaint to us..." Well, who do you complain to about the Complaints department?

Anyway, nice to see some familiar names here and I promise to go easy on Jeremy Vine (occasionally) Helen.

By the way, if your broadband provider is BT, you can reset your ISP by unplugging the hub for a minimum of 5 minutes. It plays havoc with hosts trying to stop you picking on the chosen one. Also, having read the rules, it doesn't say you can't come back after you've been banned, as it doesn't require you to say who you are when you register. Not that it matters now.

Soulsister · Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:14 pm Post subject:

Blimey - I had no idea so many people had got banned off the R2 board. Posters come, posters go I just thought - but had no idea people were getting banned. I knew of a couple on the Music board but they were back on there anyway under different names and everyone knew it.

Dalmatina · Joined: 21 Jun 2010 Posts: 62

I remember BillBored!

Loved the exchanges with Lonegroover, as I found him a pompous and patronising what-not, too!

It's satisfying to see so many familiar names have transferred over here, so I am looking forward to a lively and rather less fettered exchange of views!

Barty · Joined: 22 Aug 2010 Posts: 115

I'm sure that John W is going to 'enjoy' all the extra mod duties that will now be coming his way. Wink

Out of interest, are there any co-mods here?

John W · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 3367 Location: Warwickshire, UK

Hi Barty,

I am currently on my own-some now as admin and mod, and have been for over a year, but might consider bringing in another to ensure the forum is secure etc.

It's been fairly quiet the past year or so, not much for an admin/mod to do, only get about 2 pm's a month if anyone steps out of line etc., but if things liven up here then we could need another mod who I suppose would have to be an admin too, in case anything happens to old me Confused

I will probably call for help/volunteer soon.

John W
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John W

ColinB · Guest

John - see my PM.

Colin

Barty · Joined: 22 Aug 2010 Posts: 115

Minx · Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:24 pm Post subject:

Omigod! I've been lost in France for less than 3 weeks and that stalwart democratic forum for free expression about the expenditure of licence payers money has gone to the dogs!

Wink

Couldn't care less! Stopped posting there about two months before I stopped listening to R2 on a regular basis.

Please just try to make sure that the Troll Superiere doesn't get a toe hold in here would you John? There's some good mates on here.
_________________
Minx

To err is human, to forgive - canine.

Gibbo · Joined: 31 Aug 2010 Posts: 117 Location: Wirral

I wasn't even given a reason why I was "pre modded" or ultimately banned. I did pick holes in SN's arguments but never felt the need to be offensive or swear. And I made two posts about the moderating - one arguing (as a teacher so I should know) that "p*ss" is a swear word. And the other asking for some open discussion about the moderation on the board because it was a mess and lots of threads didn't make sense - having no title but posts, or a thread with dozens of posts removed.

Peta responded to the swearing point by simply saying "We're all adults Andy".

So that makes it OK to swear? Some of us can conduct conversations without such vulgarity. And is it OK to feature swear words on a public BBC site which can be accessed by children as well as adults?

That's what makes this closedown even sweeter!

But I definitely think something must have happened higher up for it to be given just a few days notice. Maybe the large number of decent people that the mods banned made a complaint higher up the chair and got the attention of the bosses?

RockitRon · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 7646

Could be.

It's really just the latest case of an MB which has become a problem or time-consuming to manage being closed down - that's why it was hobbled back in 2006, which is when this and other boards set up. Let's face it, the same has happened to some of those private MBs, when things have got a bit overheated (jezzas, and the various country music forums).

Quite apart from the admin and moderation issues, you have to concede that providing an online message service for a couple of hundred people, across the whole range of boards, is a waste of licence-payers money. The budget for online has been cut and it can really no longer be afforded.

There'll be letters to the Telegraph when they shut down The Bull in The Archers, but it's time for them all to go. And that includes the waste of space that is h2g2.
_________________
Ron

ColinB · Guest

gutsygub · Joined: 15 Sep 2010 Posts: 111

All of this has been really interesting reading to me. I was not banned from the messageboards but recent postings I had removed included - joining in a discussion about Richard Allinson covering the breakfast show (the thread title was removed the following day as was my contribution to it - quite bizarre) and the most recent, which to be fair was probably a bit norty, was to suggest that Sarah was forced into resigning by having her show moved to an earlier slot. They didn't really like that. What was interesting though was that the post that followed mine was from " guess who" and it said that Peta had quoted that Sarah was happy moving to the earlier time. The next day my post had gone and I had the usual warning.

Ally Gory · Joined: 15 Sep 2010 Posts: 72

I believe Peta was a significant contributor to the problems on that board and a less than ideal selection as host. There is no reasonable defence of the favouritism extended to Scott Nelson, nor the random deletions and closures. Some might be attributed to moderators, but closures are the host's choice. When you consider Scott Nelson was on pre-mod and some of his more unsavoury contributions were still posted, I was left with no goodwill towards the board's host.

When I challenged the inconsistencies of the operation of the board, those responsible swiftly became quite stroppy about it. I used to contribute to other boards without any problems and the banning from this board was an inconvenience, to say the least.

My biggest problem with all of this is that the BBC operated this board as a service to the consumer and displayed an arrogant disregard for common decency. Arguments can arise through differences of opinion, different manners of expression and time constraints for those posting their opinion. These can be managed to remain disagreements or they can be escalated into slanging matches. The operation of the News and Views board seemed designed to antagonise the majority of users.

Barty · Joined: 22 Aug 2010 Posts: 115

Peta never came across particularly well in my view. However, to give her the benefit of the doubt, she might have simply been operating under instruction from her bosses.

Dalmatina · Joined: 21 Jun 2010 Posts: 62

Hello, again, Ally Gory.

I found your comments regarding Peta's moderation to be spot-on. While those posters who replied to her comments with 'good post, Peta' were permitted to be as rude as they pleased to other posters, anyone having the temerity to question or disagree with her was treated disdainfully, using just the sort of language which would have resulted in any other contributor's moderation!

I couldn't understand the sycophancy, until another poster indicated that they too had had their 'disagreements'; and then I noticed that s/he was challenged/moderated on a disproportionate number of occasions!

Still, it doesn't affect me now: I'm on pre-mod, and unlikely to be taken off before Friday!

TheWalkingDude · Joined: 15 Sep 2010 Posts: 33

Hiya, I’ve just found my way here from ‘the other place’ and read through this thread with interest. I dunno but for such a lot of time-served forum cruisers like yourselves I’m amazed so many of you seem to have fallen into the troll’s trap. Anyone with half an hours internet experience knows that a troll feeds on conflict, by responding to him all you are doing is reinforcing and feeding the troll, which is what he was after in the first place. I’ve viewed the interminable arguments some have gotten themselves into with Scott Nelson on the R2 board and all I wanted to do was scream JUST IGNORE HIM or better still, agree with him, as I did on more than one occasion. I was pointedly ignored by him. A troll has nowhere to go from there and soon disappears.

The BBC is a £multi-billion organisation and for all their trumpeted espousal of licence payers rights & views and ‘customer service’, forum based input or any form of feedback is not even a nuisance to them, it’s an opportunity for free programme material, POV, Feedback, whatever. Filling in complaints forms and writing to the DG is similarly futile, like poking the arse of an elephant with a cocktail stick, you aint gonna change its course. I reconciled myself years ago (during the shameful Jimmy Young debacle) to the fact that I am outside the target demographic for Radio2 and must therefore expect that programming content and presentation are not going to meet with much approval from me, certainly not going to meet my expectations. There are small victories still, like the removal of the execrable SK but I believe that had more to do with her personal disintegration rather than ‘people power’. High-fives are few and far between and will eventually dwindle to nowt.

In the meantime I’m happy to find like-minded individuals who enjoy what I enjoy or maybe don’t, who are prepared to discuss the subject sensibly without taking it or themselves too seriously. At least here we should be allowed to criticise with impunity but fairness and expect our input to remain on the forum rather than be removed, to meet another overriding agenda.

That’s my two-penneth, hopefully the closing of the other place will bring more life to this excellent alternative forum and make the place fizz a bit. I promise to play my part. I’ll leave you with a question…..

Did anyone ever see Peta and Scott Nelson in the same room? Shocked

ColinB · Guest

Barty · Joined: 22 Aug 2010 Posts: 115

becky sharp · Joined: 01 Dec 2008 Posts: 6851

ColinB · Guest

Ally Gory · Joined: 15 Sep 2010 Posts: 72

Of course you're right about not feeding the troll, but when there are so many comments, new threads and deleted comments, it was made more difficult. Sometimes you could be addressing something else and it immediately became "You can't say that about the excellent Chris Evans". The red mist descends and you think "Right, you obnoxious little _____" and against anyone's better judgement, you dive right in there, adding a complaint to the mods when your post is deleted.

Of course, in the great scheme of things, it didn't really matter, but if you were having a good day and it was ruined by someone like that, it could be immensely annoying. My stress toy is beyond help. Smile

The continuous promotion of the vapid Zoe Ball didn't help either.

Soulsister · Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:45 pm Post subject:

It's alright saying ignore, ignore ... but Scott was a troll like no other I've ever come across. He was like a turbo charged version, a troll par excellence and it went beyond the simple 'let's wind up the posters' type behaviour.

He unquestionably seemed to have the backing of the host/mods. Too many people have commented on this for it to be more than a figment of the imagination. I have seen Peta defend Scott when people have had a pop at him and there is no question that posts of his were allowed to remain up there when other people's were pulled for much less. Normally the admin of a board are on to trolls straight away and will take action, but Scott just got away with it day after day, week after week, while ... from the sound of it, a whole swathe of people were getting banned for a great deal less.

I dunno, it's all very odd and Scott's behaviour doesn't explain why the very well behaved Folk board with its resident host, and the Music board also got the chop, when 6music has been able to keep open three boards?

Ally Gory · Joined: 15 Sep 2010 Posts: 72

I think the three 6 Music boards remaining open are run by the hosts of the programmes they relate to. I could be wrong, it has been known.

ColinB · Guest