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Ed Milliband Good Or Bad?

 
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mark occomore



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:28 pm    Post subject: Ed Milliband Good Or Bad? Reply with quote

Ed Milliband has been appointed at the new labour leader. If he wants too move the Labour party forward then hopefully they will win the next general election. Time will tell.
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littlepieces



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talk of him being to the left of the party which can only be a good thing as it will mean we have a viable oppositon.He won with the backing of the trade union's so he has solid support amongst labour grass roots
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Ed Milliband Good Or Bad? Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
Time will tell.


And time waits for no-one, as my granny used to say.
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Toggy



Joined: 18 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We now have 3 cardboard cut outs as leaders of the 'main' parties, all false and all full of<insert expletive of your choice>
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toggy wrote:
We now have 3 cardboard cut outs as leaders of the 'main' parties, all false and all full of<insert expletive of your choice>


<bovine excrement>???????
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ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I find somewhat ironic is that Ed Milliband got elected because of the votes of the unions but many union members do not even vote Labour any more so you have the ludicrous position where members of other parties could have been instrumental in electing the Labour leader
The system stinks but frankly as I have never been a Labour supporter I don't really care
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:
What I find somewhat ironic is that Ed Milliband got elected because of the votes of the unions but many union members do not even vote Labour any more so you have the ludicrous position where members of other parties could have been instrumental in electing the Labour leader
The system stinks but frankly as I have never been a Labour supporter I don't really care


I don't think the system stinks - the process has now changed and is more democratic than it ever has been.

This time, the members of unions affiliated to The Labout Party have had the opportunity of voting individually in a secret ballot rather than the unions themselves merely casting a block vote. It was the latter - rather than the present - approach which wasn't fair on those who were forced along with the decisions of the union leadership. This new method of voting is at least democratic, even if it's a long time coming. It's also perfectly reasonable for members of a union that's affiliated to the Labour Party to be balloted on such decisions.

I'm a life-long Labour supporter, by the way, although I left the party at the height of the problems resulting from union leaders being allowed to deceive and ignore the wishes of their own members in the turbulent 80s.
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undiscovered



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's still a long way off one man one vote, but as Colin says it's much better than it was previous, and at least this time there was an election.

The right man won IMO 30,000 new members since the election and mostly LD supporters. Getting back to what Labour was founded on is a good thing and away from New Labour.

We don't need to be selfish to be aspirational.

Tony Blair ruined DMili's chances by coming out on his side
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Lord Evan Elpuss



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

undiscovered wrote:
It's still a long way off one man one vote, but as Colin says it's much better than it was previous, and at least this time there was an election.

There's always an election of the party's leader. Gordon Brown might not have faced any opposition the last time, that was because no-one else threw their hat in the ring. I remember the same thing happening at a previous tory vote for a leader.
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undiscovered



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Evan Elpuss wrote:
undiscovered wrote:
It's still a long way off one man one vote, but as Colin says it's much better than it was previous, and at least this time there was an election.

There's always an election of the party's leader. Gordon Brown might not have faced any opposition the last time, that was because no-one else threw their hat in the ring. I remember the same thing happening at a previous tory vote for a leader.


It's a shame that no one wanted to stand against GB even just to lose, but it would have forced some more ideas but career politicians don't want to be seen on the losing side, it doesn't look good, personally if the loser learns from their mistakes then I think it shows a human side.
I just hope there is room for Dianne Abbot to be in the oposition cabinet I think she would be great up against that ghastly Warsi.
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Evan Elpuss wrote:
undiscovered wrote:
It's still a long way off one man one vote, but as Colin says it's much better than it was previous, and at least this time there was an election.

There's always an election of the party's leader. Gordon Brown might not have faced any opposition the last time, that was because no-one else threw their hat in the ring. I remember the same thing happening at a previous tory vote for a leader.


But that's not the point that was raised further back. The point was that the old block-vote system meant that affiliated union leaders determined where the vote went - which doesn't take individual members' preferences - whereas the new system is the result of a ballot of all the members of an affiliated union. So, in one major respect, it's a much fairer system.
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I accept that it's fairer than it used to be but it is still illogical
After all nobody other than Conservative MPs and party members get to vote for the Tory leader which is a lot different from even a few years ago
Whilst I don't like David Milliband and like his mentor Tony Blair even less if I was in his position I would feel very aggrieved that the unions still have the power to swing election results against the wishes of party members and Labour MPs
How can such a system be held up as democratic?
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Angela W



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if our union is affiliated to Labour or not, but if it is I didn't get a vote!
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:
I accept that it's fairer than it used to be but it is still illogical
After all nobody other than Conservative MPs and party members get to vote for the Tory leader which is a lot different from even a few years ago
Whilst I don't like David Milliband and like his mentor Tony Blair even less if I was in his position I would feel very aggrieved that the unions still have the power to swing election results against the wishes of party members and Labour MPs
How can such a system be held up as democratic?


It's historical. The Labour Party grew of the labour unions movement as a way of collectively standing up to the pro-capitalist interests in Parliament. It was the Labour movement standing together and underwriting the party that represented that provides the historical basis for the party - which remains to this day. Traditionally, unions have sponsored candidates to represent their members' interests in Parliament.

A person who joins a trade union that is affiliated to the Labour Party therefore has every right to determine how that party is managed, surely? I don't consider it anti-democracy at all. After all, all members of a given union have the right either to vote against affiliation - or to leave the union completely.

When I was a member of the broadcasting union ACTT (now Bectu) I was quite happy for it to be affiliated to the Labour Party (which I was also a member of anyhow).
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand what you are saying Colin but the point I am making is that there may have been members of your old union and of many other unions who neither support or vote Labour yet they presumably have a say in influencing how their particular union might vote in a Labour leadership election and that is quite frankly ludicrous
I fully understand the historical links between the unions and the Labour party as I had to study the subject as part of my degree course many years ago but things have moved on and the system needs to reflect that fact
100 years ago it would have been unthinkable that any union member would vote anything other than Labour but today especially after the Blair debacle in Iraq many union members are thoroughly disillusioned with the people today running the Labour party and so they now support a range of other parties
If I was a Labour party member I would not want such people to have any influence in the leadership election especially when the ballot is so close
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:
I understand what you are saying Colin but the point I am making is that there may have been members of your old union and of many other unions who neither support or vote Labour yet they presumably have a say in influencing how their particular union might vote in a Labour leadership election and that is quite frankly ludicrous


For as long as there's a close link between trade unions and the Labour Party, it seems fair enough to me. Surely, if a member doesn't like the link then perhaps they should cancel their membership of the affiliated union? After all, we're not allowed to have closed shops any more, are we? Wink

Anyway, I think we'll just have to beg to differ on this one!
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Colin I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying
I am not suggesting that the people concerned do not like the link with the Labour Party rather in fact quite the opposite
They probably do like it as they can use mischief in order to influence the leadership result of a party they don't support and some may even hate
It's just like having Arthur Scargill or Tony Benn being able to influence who is Tory leader
To me it is just a completely crazy system but as it does not in any way affect me I accept on this one we should simply agree to disagree
After all no two people on this forum are ever going to agree on everything but generally speaking I think we all try to put over our views as fairly as possible
Unless we are talking about Chris Evans in which case it's permanent open season - and he deserves everything he gets!
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:
It's just like having Arthur Scargill or Tony Benn being able to influence who is Tory leader


If they were members of organisations that were politically affiliated (both economically and constitutionally) to the Conservative Party and, therefore, had voting rights, then that would surely be justifiable?

Anyway................................
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be justifiable but still ludicrous
It would give those people the chance to have influence in selecting the leader of a party which they probably both hate and it follows that their influence would be used to try to vote in the most ineffective potential leader in order that their preferred party would stand a greater chance of winning an election
In other words they would be voting for the worst leader rather than the best
I suppose applying pure logic you might say it's the ultimate in democracy but in the real world it's a very silly concept
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No! Please!!!!! Cool
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Angela W



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you join a union, I think you can opt out of part of your subs going to the Labour Party.
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Rachel
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed is good for the UK- he'll make sure Labour don't get elected while he's leader. Stick around Ed- we like you.

Poor old David- the best Labour Leader, Labour wanted, nearly did, but never had.
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rachel wrote:
Poor old David- the best Labour Leader, Labour wanted, nearly did, but never had.


I take it you mean Cameron? After all, they're both from the same jelly-mould!!!! Cool
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm inclined to agree with you on that one Colin
I would much prefer to have seen David Davies elected as Tory party leader
He's a real person from a council estate and a single parent family with proper experience of real life
I do agree with Rachel however about Mr Ed
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SantaFefan



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh Wilburrr! ............. sorry, showing my age again.. Laughing
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Clive55



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have liked to see David Milliband as Labour leader. He has more substance & experience than Ed. But I think Ed has the makings of a good leader.
I look forward to the day ed Milliband replaces Cameron-Clugg as PM
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Schizoidman



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

None of the above -mentioned four have got any experience of life. Whether they are public school toffs like Cameron and Clegg, or clean cut middle class Home Counties boys like the Milibands, all they've ever done is go to University to get indoctrinated, then become 'advisers' and 'researchers' to MPs and politicians. They've never got their hands dirty.

Give me the Glenn Miller Band anytime.
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Blondehedgehog



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think the first thing that should be done with Ed is that he has his tonsils and adenoids fixed. He always talks as if he has a cold and is stuffed up... Shocked Wink Wink Wink Wink
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schizoidman wrote:
None of the above -mentioned four have got any experience of life. Whether they are public school toffs like Cameron and Clegg, or clean cut middle class Home Counties boys like the Milibands, all they've ever done is go to University to get indoctrinated, then become 'advisers' and 'researchers' to MPs and politicians. They've never got their hands dirty.


I quite agree. University-educated career-politicians annoy me and I just don't trust them.

Sadly, there are few Nye Bevans or Hugh Gaitskills in the Labour Party NEC nowadays, more's the pity. They'd be poised to massacre Cameron and his cosied-up cronies from the other side of the despatch box.
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