R2OK! Forum Index R2OK!
Contact R2OK! admin

Click here for R2OK! Website


 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Will Writing - 22nd July 2011

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    R2OK! Forum Index -> The Jeremy Vine Show
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:01 pm    Post subject: Will Writing - 22nd July 2011 Reply with quote

Having listened to JV's show today I was absolutely horrified to hear certain comments made by the Legal Ombudsman to the effect that if someone wrote on a piece of paper the words 'All to Wife' this would be sufficient to pass a person's estate on death and in effect would be equally as effective as having a profesionally drawn will

I dealt with the preparation of wills and administration of estates for many years and believe me there are probably more things which can go wrong in this field than any other area of law

For example on the Vine show there was no mention of the fact that there has to be two witnesses to a will who must BOTH be present in the room not only when the will is signed but when each of the witnesses adds his or her name and address and in addition there are legal rules about how the witnesses must sign - for example if they place their details anywhere other than below the signature of the person making the will then the whole document may be invalidated

It is highly irresponsible for the Vine show not to have properly researched all these precise details before even mentioning the subject of home made wills and as for the Ombudsman quite clearly he is unfit to hold that position

Of course people must be careful about putting their wills in the hands of unqualified and unregulated commercial firms without proper professional indemnity insurance but to suggest that home made wills are the answer is clearly wrong and misleading

The even more ironic thing was that on the feature before people were talking about the dangers of unqualified parents teaching their children to drive and the general opinion seemed to be that such things should be left to the professionals Confused
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blondehedgehog



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 286
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont think JV could have watched Heir Hunters TV prog.
One signature will not be enough to pass on any thing you might leave.

I had to go to court, to swear an oath after my husbands death, mother and fathers death, to clear up debts and receive any thing that was left over when their estates were not a large amount. I did it all myself but the form filling was never ending. You dont need a lawyer, just take your time.

JV's researchers should go back to the drawing table. The information was wrong
_________________
I like hedgehog crisps
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have just been reading a report of a case in the High Court in Sussex this week involving the will of a Sikh pensioner whose estate was worth around 900000 where in accordance with tradition he left the vast majority of the estate to his three sons with only token amounts to his two daughters

One of the daughters successfully challenged the will on the grounds that there was evidence from a neighbour that at the time the will was signed the two witnesses although present were not both present at the same time when the signing took place

Judge Mark Cawson QC set aside the will saying the evidence of incorrect procedures being involved was very strong and as a result the estate will now be divided equally between all of the five children

As I said in my original post the moral of this story is that if you are going to make a will it is essential to involve a professional who knows the law in detail

For preparing a simple will the average provincial solicitor will probably charge no more than 50 plus VAT and around 70 for joint wills for spouses

Many people spend more than that these days filling their cars up with fuel or on the weekly shop at the supermarket so for such an important matter please do not try to do it yourself - you could end up turning in your grave Smile
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ColinB
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ruddles - how very true your advice is. My wife's father died in 2004 and then her mother died 3 months ago. Being an only child, we knew that things wouldn't be that complicated for my wife when both her parents died. However, some 15 years ago we helped both parents to prepare their Wills - even though the assets of the first-deceased would pass to the surviving partner and thence to their only heir when they had both died. It cost us very little money (relative to a trip to Tesco!) to have this done properly.

After my mother-in-law died (rather unexpectedly) in July, we were really grateful that she had a Will simply because the bureaucracy following the death of a loved-one is still overwhelming for the bereaved; the amount of form-filling and signing at every stage is now more than ever in this post-Shipman era. So, having even a simple 2-page Will page made things so much easier.

Neither my mother-in-law's surviving twin sister nor her brother (both in their 80s) have prepared Wills in any shape or form - even though both of them have families of three children. I discussed this with my wife's cousins at the recent funeral, pointing out that their respective offspring are going to have a long drawn-out and hard job if things have to go to probate (which they undoubtedly will) yet, still, nobody has done anything about it.

It amazes me, so one can only conclude that people often get what they deserve!
Back to top
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course the other thing people need to be aware of is that if the terms of a will are challenged in the High Court and the challenge is successful the chances are that the successful party will benefit from an award of costs which will come out of the estate and thus deplete the amount available for everyone involved

If for any reason a person is going to exclude any close relative from a will it is prudent for them to sign a thing called a Statement at the same time the will is signed

A statement is a legal document which stands alongside a will and explains the reasons of the person making the will in the terms they have done and helps because after their death if the will is challenged a judge has the benefit of knowing the reasons why the will was made in its detailed terms and then it is far less likely that the court will interfere so long as the reasons stated were reasonable

However for a Statement to be valid it must be prepared and signed and witnessed in accordance with the provisions of the Wills Act 1831 in exactly the same way as the will to which it relates so proper professional advice is vital Smile
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ColinB
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ruddles - a question for you: Where/how should a person's Will be deposited such that it is accessible to "those who need access to it" upon a person's death?

Example - my parents' Wills are lodged with their family solicitor and we have copies of them. We also know where they're deposited. But what if we didn't know where they were lodged - how do the authorities (or other third parties requiring sight of a will) know where they are? Is there some sort of "Registry of Last Wills and Testaments"?

This has always puzzled me, and both my wife and I were discussing this only the other day.
Back to top
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is currently no requirement to notify people of the existence of or register any will and so, unlike for example the position with birth, marriage and death certificates there is no central Register of Wills - the only exception possibly being wills made by persons whose affairs are the subject of Court of Protection Orders where the court probably would have a record

However there are some sensible steps which everyone can take in order to avoid any problems arising

Firstly avoid depositing your wills with banks as they generally make an annual charge for this service and if you do so you are simply contributing to the bank's profit - most firms of solicitors do not charge because quite naturally they hope that if they are holding the will at the date of death they will get instructed to deal with the administration of the estate which is far more profitable than preparing the will itself
Never appoint a bank as executor as again they will make huge charges for acting in this role whereas solicitor executors generally will not charge apart from the normal estate administration fees applicable whoever is appointed executor
In the case of a simple will it is fine for the executor to be a spouse adult child or even family friend but for obvious reasons try to choose someone younger than you otherwise you will have to have your will updated in the event of their death
You need at least two executors if the will contains any provisions involving children under the age of eighteen

Secondly wherever you deposit your will tell your executors and family members during your lifetime so that on their death they will immediately know where to look

Thirdly this is simply my own practice but I think it is a good idea to write out a list of your assets and liabilities and update it regularly every year and place it with your will so that in the event of your death your executors will have some idea of all the assets and debts in the estate which can save them a great deal of time and effort especially if you have choosen to keep your financial affairs private during your lifetime

Finally tell your family personally of any wishes you may have for your funeral arrangements or if you prefer not to write the details down and place them in a sealed envelope and tell them where the envelope is

I can't tell you the number of times I have come across cases in which people have placed a note with their wills saying that they wished to be buried in a certain place but the relatives do not bother reading it until after the event when they first take a look at the will only to find that burial is impossible as they have only a pile of ashes left Rolling Eyes
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ColinB
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:
Secondly wherever you deposit your will tell your executors and family members during your lifetime so that on their death they will immediately know where to look


Again, how very appropriate. If I don't do this (and I haven't!) I can't imagine the sheer hassle it will cause my wife (if she survives me) and my two offspring should I pop my clogs before getting such matters organised.
Back to top
Blondehedgehog



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 286
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you use a lawyer to set up your will they will keep a copy.....usually free of charge. But I had an extra copy made for me, and my eldest son keeps it.
_________________
I like hedgehog crisps
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
iwarburton



Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 2133
Location: Northumberland

PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clearly some excellent advice here. Only one small query--I've heard of people being able to bury cremated remains in our local Cemetery. Could this conceivably solve the problem if the instructions of the deceased don't become apparent till later?

Ian.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cremated remains can be buried or scattered anywhere but strictly speaking the land owner's consent is required

Many cemeteries do accept the burial of cremated remains but of couse often these days they are next to the local crematorium so most people opt for burial or scattering in the crematorium garden of remembrance

A few years ago when my former business partner committed suicide I discovered that apparently the are many churches which refuse to allow suicide victims to be buried or their remains to be scattered on consecrated ground which seems rather out of date in the 21st century

When I pop my clogs I would prefer to be buried but as I can't be buried in the place where I want to I have opted for cremation so at least my ashes will be in my favourite place

By the way a few years ago I went to an open day at my local crematorium - and no it wasn't on April 1st before anyone asks Smile

It was really interesting and whilst I won't go into graphic detail it took much of the mystery out of the funeral process and I would recommend anyone who gets the chance does so

By way of useless information I did discover that apparently the most popular track requested at British crematoria in 1997 for funerals was 'I Will Always Love You' by Whitney Houston but by now I expect it could have changed

Personally I thought it would have been 'When I'm Dead and Gone' by McGuinness Flint - any other suitable suggestions?

I think I might regret starting this Embarassed
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blondehedgehog



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 286
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By way of useless information I did discover that apparently the most popular track requested at British crematoria in 1997 for funerals was 'I Will Always Love You' by Whitney Houston but by now I expect it could have changed


I prefer Dolly Partons version.......the original

When I am cremated I have requested my ashes to be turned into diamonds

Very good likeness to the real thing...... Wink
_________________
I like hedgehog crisps
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Angela W



Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 6891
Location: North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots opt for their casket to be placed in the fire(box) of a steam locomotive.
_________________
Pirate Johnnie Walker played my request on 11 April 2009
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Angela are you talking about the North Yorkshire Moors Railway near where you live - the one that appears on Heartbeat?

I love railways and I can well understand someone wanting to do that kind of thing but for me perhaps it's taking the theme of 'Ashes to Ashes' a bit too far Laughing
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Angela W



Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 6891
Location: North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:
Angela are you talking about the North Yorkshire Moors Railway near where you live - the one that appears on Heartbeat?

I love railways and I can well understand someone wanting to do that kind of thing but for me perhaps it's taking the theme of 'Ashes to Ashes' a bit too far Laughing


It happens at a lot of Heritage Railways.
_________________
Pirate Johnnie Walker played my request on 11 April 2009
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nod



Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 3555

PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting on the BBC NEWS today they said you could be buried in your garden BUT it will knock 25% off the value of the house Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can be buried in your own garden or you can even bury a third party there provided the death is properly registered and there are no suspicious circumstances I suppose even under the patio Shocked

However it must be disclosed on the Property Information Questionaire which every seller has to complete before exchange of contracts and so I suppose it would be a wonderful excuse particularly in the present property market for a buyer to seek a very large reduction in the price and I would have thought 25% was the very minimum

That is of course unless the body was that of someone famous in which case I suppose in theory it could have the opposite effect Sad
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    R2OK! Forum Index -> The Jeremy Vine Show All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group. Hosted by phpBB.BizHat.com