R2OK!

Cherskiy · Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:45 am Post subject: Red Arrows' Future in Doubt?

This story has been kicking around for a few weeks now:

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=34029&in_page_id=34&in_a_source=

Ambassadors for the UK abroad, or an expensive luxury? What do you think? Personally, I would be sorry to see them go for purely selfish reasons, as I'm getting used to catching them from the 'reverse' side of their display (see pictures below), but I can see how some people regard them as an easy option when cost savings have to be made.

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Author: “To the Ends of the Earth: A Snapshot of Aviation in North-Eastern Siberia, Summer 1992”
(Free to read via Kindle Unlimited)

mark occomore · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK

Why can't some of the money be funded by advertising?

Behind Geddon's Wall · Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:55 am Post subject:

Mark,
They are adverising - the Hawk Trainer and the RAF
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Geddon

You simply mustn't blame yourself -- the days were perfect
And so were exactly what I was born to spoil
For I am the Rider to the World's End
Bound across the cinder causeway
From the furnace to the quarry
Through the fields of oil

Cherskiy · Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:59 am Post subject:

Behind Geddon's Wall · Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:41 am Post subject:

and although based in Yellow-belly land they are close enough to be considered local to our area, and are well covered by Look North.
_________________
Geddon

You simply mustn't blame yourself -- the days were perfect
And so were exactly what I was born to spoil
For I am the Rider to the World's End
Bound across the cinder causeway
From the furnace to the quarry
Through the fields of oil

Cherskiy · Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:22 pm Post subject:

Behind Geddon's Wall · Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:15 pm Post subject:

Cherskiy - Got it in one. However I'm not sure of the derivation
_________________
Geddon

You simply mustn't blame yourself -- the days were perfect
And so were exactly what I was born to spoil
For I am the Rider to the World's End
Bound across the cinder causeway
From the furnace to the quarry
Through the fields of oil

Lord Evan Elpuss · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 3417 Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land

Just about every civilised country's military has a national aerobatic team. Off the top of my head, these are the ones I can think of:
France - Patrouille De France
Italy - Frecce Tricolore
Switzerland- Patrouille Suisse
Canada - Snowbirds
USA - Blue angels
So why shouldn't we carry on with our Red Arrows. the only thing that should be axed are the mad monetarists that keep coming up with these dreadful ideas.

Cherskiy · Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:18 pm Post subject:

Best ones out of that list were the Patrouille de Suisse when they flew Hunters. Cracking displays. Never saw the Snowbirds but the Blue Angels and the USAF Thunderbirds were over-rated, IMHO - the latter did a fairly non-descript routine the last time I saw them at Mildenhall (although their ground routines are fairly impressive!).
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Author: “To the Ends of the Earth: A Snapshot of Aviation in North-Eastern Siberia, Summer 1992”
(Free to read via Kindle Unlimited)

Lord Evan Elpuss · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 3417 Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land

I have seen a Snowbirds display while on holiday in Canada one year. It was a similar routine to the Red Arrows.

Barkingbiker · Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 2313 Location: Lincolnshire

Barkingbiker · Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 2313 Location: Lincolnshire

Cherskiy · Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:42 pm Post subject:

Barkingbiker · Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 2313 Location: Lincolnshire

Lord Evan Elpuss · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 3417 Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land

There's a petition about this on the No10 site (the same site as the Road pricing one)
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/SaveTheReds/

Behind Geddon's Wall · Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:38 am Post subject:

BB
Thanks for the derivation, I didn't know that, although it is used as a derogatory term north of the great divide
_________________
Geddon

You simply mustn't blame yourself -- the days were perfect
And so were exactly what I was born to spoil
For I am the Rider to the World's End
Bound across the cinder causeway
From the furnace to the quarry
Through the fields of oil

brumboy · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 15 Location: Birmingham

Duly signed my lord, I notice that the raod pricing petition has now reached nearly 1-1/2 million now, Not that NL will take any notice of public opinion. Mad

Behind Geddon's Wall · Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:55 am Post subject:

The story was doing the rounds again on Look North a couple of days ago. The local Tory MP had something to say.
_________________
Geddon

You simply mustn't blame yourself -- the days were perfect
And so were exactly what I was born to spoil
For I am the Rider to the World's End
Bound across the cinder causeway
From the furnace to the quarry
Through the fields of oil

Cherskiy · Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:20 pm Post subject:

Latest I've heard is that the Jaguars are being retired six months ahead of time to save money* (in April this year), and I bet the loss of the C-130 in Iraq the other day is biting into the MoD's coffers - the transport fleets is fairly stretched as it is without losing another one.

*Wonder what the RAF will do with all the spare fast-jet crews?
_________________
Author: “To the Ends of the Earth: A Snapshot of Aviation in North-Eastern Siberia, Summer 1992”
(Free to read via Kindle Unlimited)

Highlander · Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Posts: 348 Location: Scotland

Have signed petition. Every time I've seen them at our local RAF base they have been magnificent. CE had Red One on his show only recently. He told CE that when he tells people what he does for a living people don't believe him (Red One that is not CE).
Cool

PS I presume they are your photo's - very good!
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Cherskiy · Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:49 pm Post subject:

Highlander · Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Posts: 348 Location: Scotland

Very impressive. How that done? From a helicopter?
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Over the hill they came....the greatest Army in the World.....The Tartan Army

Cherskiy · Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:20 pm Post subject:

Highlander · Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Posts: 348 Location: Scotland

Well they are excellent. Bit of an amateur photographer myself but I don't have the kit that would allow me to take shots like that. Cool

Anyway better not go too far off topic. Wink

as I say below....
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Over the hill they came....the greatest Army in the World.....The Tartan Army

Barkingbiker · Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 2313 Location: Lincolnshire

Cherskiy · Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:57 pm Post subject:

Barkingbiker · Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 2313 Location: Lincolnshire

I should have read your post fully, I know 17 are at big C flying Typhoons, so having taken the fotie on Tuesday, couldn't be a 17 Tonka. I was on 17 at Bruggen, 73 - 76, got a back seat ride in XV 469, clean wing, whilst on a Tac Weapons meet at Leuchars in 74 or 75.

BB Twisted Evil

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Barkingbiker · Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 2313 Location: Lincolnshire

According to "Look North" tonight, the Red Arrows are safe. This attributed to a statement by the Chief of the Air Staff saying that he thought it was highly unlikely that the Red Arrows would be disbanded, however, he would not confirm that they were to stay at Scampton. Can we believe this, I ask myself? Confused

BB

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Old Bikers Never Die, our leathers just get tighter!

mark occomore · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK

Quater of a million pounds of tax payers money for some smoke coming out of the back of the planes. Shocked

Barkingbiker · Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 2313 Location: Lincolnshire

How many orders for BAe Hawks has this quarter of a million pound investment returned, its probably a multi billion in Saudi Arabia alone, never mind the Goss Hawk contract with the Yanks and then there's the Oz and Malayasian contracts. So yes in this instance I think you need your glasses on to see beyond the end of your nose Mark.

BB Twisted Evil

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Old Bikers Never Die, our leathers just get tighter!

Lord Evan Elpuss · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 3417 Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land

Ella Sailyour · Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 579 Location: Marbella, Spain

BDG · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 202

Cherskiy · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:53 am Post subject:

The Reds have always been seen as an ambassador for the UK - its why they perform at plenty of overseas events in addition to the UK airshow scene. As BB says, the fact that they operate the Hawk means that the type gets free publicity (translated into aircraft sales) around the world, leading to continued jobs at BAe. As BB says, the US Navy bought the T-45 Goshawk version, whilst I've also seen Finnish and South Korean versions on the production line at Warton, in addition to Indonesian ones at Brough. Quite a success story, is the Hawk - and a little of that success is due to the type being operated by the Red Arrows.

Speak to any non-aircraft enthusiast who goes to watch a display and all they're really bothered about seeing is the Reds - you only have to see the queues of cars leaving a show immediately after they display (even though the event hasn't finished) to work that one out. I've lost count of the number of times I've attended some non-airshow event to photograph the Reds from an unusual angle, had the scanner on their air-to-air frequency for advance notice of their arrival, then have had a large crowd of people standing around me, eagerly listening to the chatter on the radio. The first question I am always asked is: "when are the Red Arrows due?"
_________________
Author: “To the Ends of the Earth: A Snapshot of Aviation in North-Eastern Siberia, Summer 1992”
(Free to read via Kindle Unlimited)

Behind Geddon's Wall · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:35 am Post subject:

On Look North last night, a local tory MP has been assured that the Reds are safe.
_________________
Geddon

You simply mustn't blame yourself -- the days were perfect
And so were exactly what I was born to spoil
For I am the Rider to the World's End
Bound across the cinder causeway
From the furnace to the quarry
Through the fields of oil

Ella Sailyour · Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 579 Location: Marbella, Spain

And quite right too! The Red Arrows have always been fabulous flag-flyers for Britain, and long may they continue to impress us all....

Ella
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Lord Evan Elpuss · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 3417 Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land

Barkingbiker · Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 2313 Location: Lincolnshire

As an ex BAe employee, working on the Hawk at Brough in the late 80's & early 90's and out out in Saudi Arabia on the Tornado and instructing the RSAF Cadets, the PR work that the Arrows do flying their impressive displays is really important to BAe. It results in not just Hawk sales, world wide, but many other aircraft type sales and services, the Al Yammah contract earns this country billions, it maybe BAe operating in Saudi, but it is a government to government contract and the British Government earns a great deal from this. So the Arrows are not just exciting to watch, they more than pay for themselves and show that we still have the best trained Air Force in the world and make me proud to be British. Long may they continue, hopefully at Scampton.

BB Twisted Evil

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Old Bikers Never Die, our leathers just get tighter!

Cherskiy · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:40 pm Post subject:

Some more shots of the Reds from 'the wrong side' of the Windermere Air Show last year (taken from the opposite side of the lake from the crowd):

As you can see, I prefer taking pictures of aeroplanes with as little sky as possible in the frame.... so No.2 wasn't very good! Very Happy

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Author: “To the Ends of the Earth: A Snapshot of Aviation in North-Eastern Siberia, Summer 1992”
(Free to read via Kindle Unlimited)

Ella Sailyour · Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 579 Location: Marbella, Spain

Wonderful pix, Cherskiy. What camera and lens are you using for these?

Ella
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This week's $64,000 question: Why am I so gorgeous, possums?