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Jimmy Savile Scandal

 
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mark occomore



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 9955
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:20 am    Post subject: Jimmy Savile Scandal Reply with quote

What are your views about the Jimmy Savile scandal?

Remember a lot of people were kids at the time. There wasn't things like Child Line then, There needs a lot of time and proof what went on. Police and the BBC will take as long as it takes.

I think we have all jumped on the bandwagon and need now to step back cause there may well be criminal proceedings, and other dark secrets could emerge over time. Unless you were the victim, you don't know what went on and as I said " Most were kids at the time " and can be hard for them to open up now. I'm sure the BBC will clear there name after this has blown over.
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R2Icon



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the whole thing has been handled really badly. Back in the early 70s, a time when people thought differently, things were different: what was and wasn’t acceptable was different to now. It’s inappropriate to judge behaviour in the 70 s by today’s standards of acceptable behaviour: fortunately, things have moved on since then. That such a fuss is being made should give us cause to celebrate our social and moral progress. Child abuse is an awful crime and always has been an awful crime but sixteen-year-old girls or girls claiming to be sixteen were fair game in the 70s- rightly or wrongly that was the way of things. They wrote songs about it!!! Listen to Happy Birthday Sweet Sixteen by Neil Sedaka, what’s that about?!

Other than a yardstick to our advancing standards, nothing can be gained by raking over this. If 200 or more victims have remained silent for nearly 30 years – what do they hope to achieve by coming out of the woodwork now that the perpetrator is dead? The current management of the BBC shouldn’t be in the can for this, although the guy who cancelled that programme about the abuse claims and then was less than honest about why: if he doesn’t fall on his sword, should be given the heave ho. That should be an end to it.
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becky sharp



Joined: 01 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

R2Icon wrote:
girls claiming to be sixteen were fair game in the 70s


They absolutely were not! Saying that takes away all the responsibility of the adults in such situations ...if there was any doubt in their minds about the ages of the girls they should have turned them away...I wonder if you would have shrugged it off and thought that a daughter of yours was 'fair game' in a similar situation.
R2Icon wrote:
coming out of the woodwork now .

Is that where you think these women live? ...a phrase like that gives them little or no dignity ...most of these women have come forward (as I like to say), because of the documentary on ITV which gave them courage to speak of what happened to them back then ....some of whom did speak up at the time but who were not believed.
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R2Icon



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

becky sharp wrote:
R2Icon wrote:
girls claiming to be sixteen were fair game in the 70s


They absolutely were not! Saying that takes away all the responsibility of the adults in such situations ...if there was any doubt in their minds about the ages of the girls they should have turned them away...I wonder if you would have shrugged it off and thought that a daughter of yours was 'fair game' in a similar situation.
R2Icon wrote:
coming out of the woodwork now .

Is that where you think these women live? ...a phrase like that gives them little or no dignity ...most of these women have come forward (as I like to say), because of the documentary on ITV which gave them courage to speak of what happened to them back then ....some of whom did speak up at the time but who were not believed.


It was a different era: things were different. Not so many years ago we used to send young boys up chimneys , we transported criminals to Austraila, it was common practice to sell your wife and daughters. We don't do those things now. We have moved on. You cannot judge something that happened in the 70's by today's standards. Even if you do, what do you hope to achieve? The things that were happening back then in this country are still happening in other countries all over the world today- right now: yet we do nothing about those things we can do something about, and instead choose to make a huge fuss about something that happened years ago that we can do nothing about. Makes no sense to me.
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becky sharp



Joined: 01 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

R2Icon wrote:


It was a different era:

If, in your mind, you wish to sweep it aside in such a simple manner then that is up to you.

If by coming forward these women gain some kind of inner peace I wish them all the best.
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Helen May



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't believe this is still going on and I've been away 2 weeks!

I agree with Rachel's first post. Child crime is still bad and always will be, but the man is dead so can't see what good can become of it. Things are very different today thank goodness. I do think the tribute shows should have been pulled as there was obviously something coming to light.

There's a letter in today's Mail from a guy who saw girls queing outside the TOTP studios in Manchester, where it was then made, for invitations to the DJs dressing rooms and/or hotel rooms. He said many looked 16+ but were very likely not. I wonder if other shows like Ready Steady Go were any different? I doubt it.

For me Savile was a 40+ year old and what did girls under 16 want with him anyway? I always thought he was a creepy old thing.

H
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essexlady



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with Rachel on this. As I have already said this sort of thing was common when I was a teenager working in a very respectable merchant bank in the City of London. It wasn't usually physical abuse but certainly there were lots of offensive remarks and the odd groping.

I would have agreed that these women were courageous if they had complained while JS was alive but now? I just hope they aren't going to claim financial compensation from the BBC or are they? How will money change anything except making them rich or am I being overly cynical? I strongly object to my licence fee paying for the crimes of a pervert.
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Helen May



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

essexlady wrote:
I'm with Rachel on this. As I have already said this sort of thing was common when I was a teenager working in a very respectable merchant bank in the City of London. It wasn't usually physical abuse but certainly there were lots of offensive remarks and the odd groping.


It was the same in airlines at that time. You kept a safe distance from several who had nicknames to match.

H
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John W



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure it's inappropriate to judge 1970s behaviour today.

Some scout leaders have been tried and prosecuted, some priests have been tried and prosecuted.

Why should DJ's and BBC managers be exempt?

A BBC manager who (knowingly) allowed girls into Savile's dressing room is just as guilty, and by not stopping it, allowed further abuses to take place.

Yes we do have a different view now, and we cringe to look atfilm of young teens flaunting themselves on TOTP with the likes of Savile and Glitter - saw a clip of the two of them with young girls - oh dear.
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R2Icon



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John W wrote:
I'm not sure it's inappropriate to judge 1970s behaviour today.

Some scout leaders have been tried and prosecuted, some priests have been tried and prosecuted.

Why should DJ's and BBC managers be exempt?

A BBC manager who (knowingly) allowed girls into Savile's dressing room is just as guilty, and by not stopping it, allowed further abuses to take place.

Yes we do have a different view now, and we cringe to look atfilm of young teens flaunting themselves on TOTP with the likes of Savile and Glitter - saw a clip of the two of them with young girls - oh dear.


I’m talking only about legal behaviour, John. Child abuse has always been a crime.

Presumably the scout leaders and priests to whom you refer were still alive when they were prosecuted. One of the fundamental requirements I believe.

No one is or should be exempt prosecution for crimes they’ve committed*.

Your fourth point is conjecture and always will be.

*(Some diplomats can be)
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John W



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

R2Icon wrote:
Presumably the scout leaders and priests to whom you refer were still alive when they were prosecuted. One of the fundamental requirements I believe.


Yes, and my point is some of the BBC staff involved with Savile are still alive. If they knowlingly connived with Savile then they can be charged.
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SantaFefan



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does this all mean we are never to see the original Top of the Pops broadcast ever again?? and what about all the other TotPs... Confused
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ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SantaFefan wrote:
Does this all mean we are never to see the original Top of the Pops broadcast ever again?? and what about all the other TotPs... Confused


I really hope it doesn't Santa but judging from the absence of any of Mr Glitter's tracks ever being played on radio today I rather think that it's quite likely

I think that some people miss the point that whilst there have been some dreadful things done by the likes of Glitter and now evidently Savile which no decent person would seek to defend - nevertheless they remain a part of music history and that is a fact which will never change no matter how much some people try to ignore the position or wish to expunge their place in music for future generations

The main thing is that we learn from history so as to ensure that such utterly distasteful events are never repeated Sad
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess the Jim'll Fix It with Shane Richie will never be commissioned either anymore. All will be achieved and put to bed.

Im amazed a fallen star ( Gary Glitter ) with apparently no money - as it's not had a sodding song out for years lives in a posh London flat? He did looked well dressed emerging from the flat to the police car..
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gary Glitter ( Paul Gadd ) has been released on Police Bail until Mid December. I don't think any footage of Gary Glitters old Music Videos should be played on sky news BBC News Itv news etc - so he receives royalties? As they have been across the news networks.
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Toggy



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One wonders if a certain Mr King is also on the list of those of interest to the plod.
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Helen May



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wondered about that as well Toggy when I heard the news about Glitter.

H
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
Gary Glitter ( Paul Gadd ) has been released on Police Bail until Mid December. I don't think any footage of Gary Glitters old Music Videos should be played on sky news BBC News Itv news etc - so he receives royalties? As they have been across the news networks.


You've assumed your familiar role of judge and jury again, Mark. He's been charged with something and bailed, that's all. Anyway, if a segment of 10 seconds or less is used in a news broadcast, I'm not sure a royalty is due.

Of course, if your ruling sticks, I guess the BBC is going to have a hard time selecting the archive editions of TOTP for showing on BBC4 as they do regularly?

Where does it end?
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RockitRon



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ColinB wrote:

You've assumed your familiar role of judge and jury again, Mark. He's been charged with something and bailed, that's all. Anyway, if a segment of 10 seconds or less is used in a news broadcast, I'm not sure a royalty is due.

He hasn't been charged with anything.

"Met Police confirmed officers from Operation Yewtree had "arrested a man in his 60s in connection with the investigation".

"The man, from London, was arrested at approximately 0715 on suspicion of [unspecified] sexual offences. The individual falls under the strand of the investigation we have termed 'Savile and others'."


Gary Glitter's recordings are freely available worldwide (as are Jonathon King's, and anyone else in the music world who has been convicted of a criminal offence) and are still played in some countries (some US football and baseball stadia still use them) so he presumably receives sufficient royalties to fund his lifestyle. Probably better that than the taxpayer having to fund him through the benefit system.
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essexlady



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course he may just have had a good business brain or financial adviser and be living on the benefits of the money he made in earlier years.
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