R2OK! Forum Index R2OK!
Contact R2OK! admin

Click here for R2OK! Website


 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Solider Killed In Woolwich (London )

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    R2OK! Forum Index -> News and Current Affairs
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mark occomore



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 9955
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 8:36 pm    Post subject: Solider Killed In Woolwich (London ) Reply with quote

A man believed to be a solider has been hacked to death in the street in Woolwich, London.

http://news.sky.com/story/1094380/woolwich-soldier-dead-after-terror-attack

_________

This is a barbaric attack. Stand by and unite we don't live in a country which tolerates violence of this multitude.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just sad that the police on this occasion did not shoot to kill

Society will be faced with a huge bill for keeping them in prison for possibly half a century and the fact that they didn't run away strongly suggests that they were quite proud of what they did

It's a real shame that people did not listen to the words of Enoch Powell back in 1968 when he predicted that the streets of London would 'run with blood'

We've had almost 50 years since then of foreign criminals and nutters being allowed into this country and I think these Islamic bastards have probably just done wonders for UKIP's prospects at the next election
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FleetingEileenM



Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 4977
Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Muslim Council of Britain has spoken out and condemned the attack as barbaric and having no basis in Islam.

How pro-active are they in rooting out the extremists in their midst? It's in their own interest to be seen to be doing this in order to discourage religious and racial tensions.

I echo what you said Ruddles except that I'm glad they were not shot dead. At least there is some hope of finding out some background about them and any organisation behind them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mark occomore



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 9955
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The soldier murdered in a terrorist attack in Woolwich has been named as Drummer Lee Rigby, a "loving father" to his two-year-old son. The 25-year-old, of 2nd Battalion the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers.

Prayers are with his family at this time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Schizoidman



Joined: 20 Sep 2010
Posts: 1133
Location: Rural West Sussex

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Ruddles but the police did the right thing in deliberately wounding them instead of killing them.
I want them alive so they can be questioned about indoctrination, links with others etc, though I think it's probably just a case of two lone wolves acting alone, with no involvement from any terrorist group.

I don't mind paying my taxes for these lowlife to spend the rest of their lives in jail. They're probably costing us a fortune anyway in benefits. Hopefully they'll be given a thoroughly nasty time inside.

I just hope the police aren't unduly criticised by the usual left wing, rent a mob crowd. No doubt they'll have to pay compensation to the terrorists.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John W



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 3360
Location: Warwickshire, UK

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Horrific that TV keep showing clips of the murderer with the blood-stained hands.

Deluded. Does he not know about the women and children killed in Iraq or Afghanistan by Muslim car bombs and murdering insurgents?
_________________
-
John W
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Helen May



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 18071
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FleetingEileenM wrote:
The Muslim Council of Britain has spoken out and condemned the attack as barbaric and having no basis in Islam.

How pro-active are they in rooting out the extremists in their midst? It's in their own interest to be seen to be doing this in order to discourage religious and racial tensions.

I echo what you said Ruddles except that I'm glad they were not shot dead. At least there is some hope of finding out some background about them and any organisation behind them.


Totally agree Eileen and Schidz. They should never have shown that footage of one of them either.

Now it seems they were known to the security people...........

H
_________________
88 - 91 FM this is Radio 2 from the BBC!

I said it live on air in the studio with Jeremy Vine on 10/3/2005
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well my cousin is coming here next weekend and he is Senior Prosecutor with the CPS in London exclusively for terrorist cases - it will be very interesting what he has to say about all this Smile
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FleetingEileenM



Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 4977
Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schizoidman wrote:
I think it's probably just a case of two lone wolves acting alone, with no involvement from any terrorist group.

That is a more scary scenario than involvement with a terrorist group.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FleetingEileenM wrote:
The Muslim Council of Britain has spoken out and condemned the attack as barbaric and having no basis in Islam.

How pro-active are they in rooting out the extremists in their midst? It's in their own interest to be seen to be doing this in order to discourage religious and racial tensions.

I echo what you said Ruddles except that I'm glad they were not shot dead. At least there is some hope of finding out some background about them and any organisation behind them.


But what on earth is the point of trying to find the background behind these people Eileen?

They were either acting alone of if not certainly aren't going to admit that anyone else is involved - they were obviously quite prepared to die by the very fact they remained at the crime scene and walked towards the police brandishing knives and guns - we simply need to wipe these people out on the basis that you then have two less problem people in our country Rolling Eyes
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FleetingEileenM



Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 4977
Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems that when they were confronted by the police they ran towards them deliberately as if they were hoping to be killed, thus becoming martyrs. That would be more meaningful to their evil sympathisers than if they acted as suicide-bombers.

It would be interesting to know your cousin's views Ruddles - if he is allowed to express them and if you are allowed to tell us.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Helen May



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 18071
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm rather glad they weren't able to make martyrs of themselves and I think most people will feel the same way Eileen.

H
_________________
88 - 91 FM this is Radio 2 from the BBC!

I said it live on air in the studio with Jeremy Vine on 10/3/2005
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FleetingEileenM wrote:
It seems that when they were confronted by the police they ran towards them deliberately as if they were hoping to be killed, thus becoming martyrs. That would be more meaningful to their evil sympathisers than if they acted as suicide-bombers.

It would be interesting to know your cousin's views Ruddles - if he is allowed to express them and if you are allowed to tell us.


He tells me certain things Eileen about his work but obviously he is subject to the terms of the Official Secrets Act so he can't talk about specific details of cases or suspects - he will probably have an informed opinion about MI5 and its apparent failure to moniter the movements of the offenders in this case Smile
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Shaky Fan



Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 628

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aren't the people saying that the police should have shot the 2 guys dead being a bit hypocritical? Surely that would bring whoever did the shooting down to their level of murderer?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaky Fan wrote:
Aren't the people saying that the police should have shot the 2 guys dead being a bit hypocritical? Surely that would bring whoever did the shooting down to their level of murderer?


The way I see it is that we should have capital punishment in this country - not for all murders by any means - but certainly for premeditated murders which would include all deaths as a result of terrorism as in this recent case - but we don't have it at present so if these offenders come at the police brandishing weapons then there is the perfect opportunity to rid the world of these problem people - quite lawfully

After all the police were quite happy to shoot to kill in the case of that unfortunate Brazilian man who was completely innocent of any wrongdoing so why can't they shoot dead people who pose a serious threat to society
- as for the point of making them martyrs if you shoot enough of these disgusting people it will become such a routine occurence that the issue of martyrdom won't be in the minds of anyone - it will simply be a case of good riddance to bad rubbish Smile
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Toggy



Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Posts: 1239

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John W wrote:
Horrific that TV keep showing clips of the murderer with the blood-stained hands.



I wish they would stop showing pictures of the poor lad they killed dead in the road as well. Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Schizoidman



Joined: 20 Sep 2010
Posts: 1133
Location: Rural West Sussex

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, it's photo-journalism at it's worse. And it must be sickening for the family to see.

Ruddles: I don't think you can blame the security services/M15 for not preventing this attack. Although the two terrorists were 'on the radar' they were probably seen as lesser problems and for all we know they have no criminal records. M15 have thousands of suspects to monitor and can't keep a watch on everyone all the time. Staff cuts probably don't help either.

As for the Brazilian, he had emerged from a suspicious address, had a rucksack and was heading for the tube, and failed to respond when told to by the police. In the post 7/7 atmosphere the police were justified in firing, believing that another tube train was going to be blown up.

And he wasn't completely innocent, he was in the UK illegally (though I admit being shot dead is a bit of a draconian punishment for overstaying a visa).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Shaky Fan



Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 628

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:
Shaky Fan wrote:
Aren't the people saying that the police should have shot the 2 guys dead being a bit hypocritical? Surely that would bring whoever did the shooting down to their level of murderer?


The way I see it is that we should have capital punishment in this country - not for all murders by any means - but certainly for premeditated murders which would include all deaths as a result of terrorism as in this recent case - but we don't have it at present so if these offenders come at the police brandishing weapons then there is the perfect opportunity to rid the world of these problem people - quite lawfully


The taking of lives is murder - nothing lawful about that!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Shaky -as a lawyer of more than 30 years experience I think I just might know rather more about the subject than most others on here

To say that all killing is murder is patently ridiculous - have you never heard of lesser offences like manslaughter and causing death by dangerous driving - they involve people being killed but are not classified as murder

Then there is the long establised principle in relation to to any murder charge of self defence - any individual including a police officer is entitled to use reasonable force to defend themselves if there is an imminent threat to their life

Of course the force must be reasonable and clearly it wouldn't be reasonable to shoot someone dead if for example they were simply threatening someone with a hammer of baseball bat but where the person under threat has full knowledge that a third party has just hacked a human being to death then it is perfectly reasonable to shoot to kill and no court in this country is ever going to uphold a murder conviction in such a case

Oh and by the way the test of what is reasonable force in such cases is a subjective one ie what the person in fear of a potential attacker actually perceives in the heat of the moment and NOT what might be considered reasonable by the public in general or even by a Judge with the benefit of hindsight

As you may know there is currently legislation going through Parliament to strengthen the rights of individuals to defend themselves against potential attackers and as far as I'm concerned it's long overdue Smile
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Shaky Fan



Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 628

PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:
Sorry Shaky -as a lawyer of more than 30 years experience I think I just might know rather more about the subject than most others on here


....and modest with it! Rolling Eyes

I'll leave it there as I don't find there's any point in getting into a discussion with someone who's so far up themselves and thinks they're an expert on every topic under the sun and that nobody else has a clue....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Shaky I assume that you are resorting to personal insults simply because you don't have any logical argument against the comments in my previous post - or perhaps you just can't help yourself Smile

I certainly don't claim to be an expert on every topic - for example ask me anything about films or Sci fi or Shakespeare and I'd be struggling but on legal issues I think it is quite reasonable for me to point out my experience in that particular field - that isn't by way of boasting - it's simply stating a relevant fact when challenging someone who clearly doesn't correctly understand simple legal issues Rolling Eyes
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John W



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 3360
Location: Warwickshire, UK

PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaky Fan wrote:
I don't find there's any point in getting into a discussion with someone who's so far up themselves ....


Oh come on Shaky, ruddles is only justifying his opinion with real facts and stating his real experience in relevant matters, and that allows you to know where you are in the discussion, and how best to respond.

Clearly you did not do your best to respond Rolling Eyes
_________________
-
John W
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    R2OK! Forum Index -> News and Current Affairs All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group. Hosted by phpBB.BizHat.com