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Russell Davies
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R2Icon



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John W wrote:
R2Icon wrote:
..... no respect to the decision making process that has taken place and disses the entire station.


The station's track record on pre-WWII music and absence of most of today's stylists who honour that music, make the station difficult to respect and easy to dismiss.


Track record. I like that. It's a little bit punny as Elton John very nearly sang.
Historic music has its place, John, I was just talking about that the other day to a friend who has a thing for 17th century sea shanties. He knows them all, although I have a strong suspicion that he just makes some of them up as he goes along. I said to Old Sea Dog Sandy, look the violin and the dancing on one leg is great but it's not really what people want on the radio. Of course the odd track or two sprinkled across the schedule will help to make life more interesting but not a whole show. He was happy with that.
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FleetingEileenM



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

R2Icon wrote:
the violin and the dancing on one leg is great but it's not really what people want on the radio. Of course the odd track or two sprinkled across the schedule will help to make life more interesting but not a whole show. He was happy with that.

I think that is a rather extreme example.

The music that is slowly but surely being "disappeared" from Radio 2 is the kind which is part of an enormous memory bank in many current listeners' minds - and not just those at the older end of the spectrum. When I was a teenager in the late 1950s I listened to my own current pop music but also was exposed to and grew to like and value much of the music from earlier decades. A great popular musical education, thanks to the BBC.

A lot these older songs are timeless classics written by skilled and innovative composers and lyricists and recorded by singers and musicians of outstanding ability - and indeed some are so valued by present day performers that they are re-recording them.

I seriously believe that it is wrong of Radio 2 to deny the younger generation the opportunity to listen to this older music and learn the sometimes fascinating background behind them - if they want to and if they know it is there.

John is quite right to mention the so-called remit. Radio 2's target audience is supposed to be 35 and up - well, that covers a vast range of possibly 60 years of listeners' ages. Therefore it seems pretty mean-spirited of the BBC to carry on chipping away at the specialist shows.
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R2Icon



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As time goes by, more and more music is created- as further time goes by more and more indeed all of that music becomes “old music” it’s not current. It’s quite right that radio stations should play “old music” and they do. The problem starts when you have to decide which old music to play- there’s so much of it. With the passage of time and constant creation of new music, any particular kind of old music become less in percentage terms of all old music: for example, 50 years ago – pre war music was a big percentage of available old music to choose from- now it’s a tiny percentage and getting smaller all the time. As more and more listeners fall off their perch, the amount of people whom are still alive and can remember pre war music is fewer and fewer, indeed my mum in law born 1921 and still with us and a radio 2 listener raves about Perry Como and Matt Monroe, (she’s never once mentioned Louis Prima- who I listen to a lot)- she has several CDs, she doesn’t though, throw things at the radio when other music is played. She sings along.

Radio 2 isn’t a museum, it’s a Radio Station- it plays music- some old, some not so.

John is talking about pre-war music. WWII started some 74 years ago- so we’re talking about people in their 80s/90s that will have memories of the music and of that time at the same time. People like my mum in law. You can’t go back in history to time before you were born and demand that a radio station plays music from an era that looks or sounds interesting to you, if you think that, then Old Sea Dog Sandy’s 17th Century Sea Shanties deserve as much airtime as any other music you can think of. Where do you draw the line? The assertion that my example is extreme is flawed: it’s “old music” and has equal standing with all other music in the annals of musical history and like any music, some people like it, some don’t, and therefore deserves equal consideration when choices about what to play are made, but I digress.

Quick question : why is it that people whom like old music think that new music is only for under 35 year olds? I’ve liked new music all my life- some more than others.

Getting back to my original point. The petition is rude, and whilst I don’t necessarily disagree with its premise, I love all music; it’s not the way to get things done. With fewer than 200 signatures I suspect that a greater number of biscuits were consumed at the meeting to decide to chop the RD show but good luck with it anyway I was only trying to help but as ever the different viewpoint is attacked.

Any plans to march down Portland Place and hand the petition to the Controller?


Last edited by R2Icon on Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Helen May



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally don't think it is rude, but sometimes you have to be rude to get your point across Rachel.

There's no use pussyfooting around if you mean business.

H
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R2Icon



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Helen May wrote:
I personally don't think it is rude, but sometimes you have to be rude to get your point across Rachel.

There's no use pussyfooting around if you mean business.

H


Really! Gosh. Imagine the letter was to you from your hubby but instead of a radio show , he was talking about your decision to withdraw Lasange from your weekly menu.

"Your Lasagne is delicious and stands out amongst what is becoming an increasingly anodyne and bland menu. I can see no good reason for lasagne to be discontinued and ask you to reconsider your short-sighted decision to drop it from the menu."

I'd be pretty miffed to get a letter like that, especially if I'd dropped Lasagne for a jolly good housekeeping reason.

I would have gone about it a different way: if you really want pre WWII music on Radio 2- write to the Controller about say: having a "Pre War Wednesday slot" on the Breakfast Show or Drivetime- requests from listeners. If 9 million people hear the fantastic music you so want them to then many of them might just get really into it.. if you want young people to hear something, you have to play it while they're listening.
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FleetingEileenM



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

R2Icon wrote:
Helen May wrote:
I personally don't think it is rude, but sometimes you have to be rude to get your point across Rachel.

There's no use pussyfooting around if you mean business.

H


Really! Gosh. Imagine the letter was to you from your hubby but instead of a radio show , he was talking about your decision to withdraw Lasange from your weekly menu.

"Your Lasagne is delicious and stands out amongst what is becoming an increasingly anodyne and bland menu. I can see no good reason for lasagne to be discontinued and ask you to reconsider your short-sighted decision to drop it from the menu."

I'd be pretty miffed to get a letter like that, especially if I'd dropped Lasagne for a jolly good housekeeping reason.

As far as I know Radio 2 has so far failed to explain their "housekeeping reason" for dropping Russell Davies's show. It can't be a question of money surely?
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R2Icon



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FleetingEileenM wrote:

As far as I know Radio 2 has so far failed to explain their "housekeeping reason" for dropping Russell Davies's show. It can't be a question of money surely?


I've no idea why they dropped it. What I' m certain of though, is that meetings will have been held, issues will have been discussed, processes will have been followed, biscuits will have been eaten, and finally, decisions made. That's how it works in the corporate world, we can only trust that they had the meetings, they followed the processes, discussed the issues, didn't choke on the biscuits, and made the right decision. We may not like it but there it is.

I don't think someone sits at Radio 2 and thinks , right, I want to upset some old folk, who can I axe this week?
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Helen May



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But it's not a letter to your hubby Rachel!

It's a petition from disgruntled listeners who are sick and tired of 'yoof' stuff being put on a station that is supposed to cater for those up to 90 years of age. We are paying for it through our licence fee so we expect better treatment. They haven't listened to us before so it's time to get tough.

H
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FleetingEileenM



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

R2Icon wrote:
Historic music has its place, John, I was just talking about that the other day to a friend who has a thing for 17th century sea shanties. He knows them all, although I have a strong suspicion that he just makes some of them up as he goes along. I said to Old Sea Dog Sandy, look the violin and the dancing on one leg is great but it's not really what people want on the radio. Of course the odd track or two sprinkled across the schedule will help to make life more interesting but not a whole show. He was happy with that.

Now I come to think of it, I remember listening to a radio documentary about sea shanties and it was fascinating as there was lots of historical info as well as the songs.

It was just the sort of thing which could easily have popped up in Alan Titchmarsh's much-missed "Melodies For You" because he used to include music from any genre you could imagine - and he covered a very wide range.
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R2Icon



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Helen May wrote:
But it's not a letter to your hubby Rachel!

It's a petition from disgruntled listeners who are sick and tired of 'yoof' stuff being put on a station that is supposed to cater for those up to 90 years of age. We are paying for it through our licence fee so we expect better treatment. They haven't listened to us before so it's time to get tough.

H

My mum in law is 92, Helen, she loves daytime Radio 2, especially Vanessa, Chris and Jezza, are you saying she's too old for R2?

Helen , disgruntled or not, you don't get anywhere in this world by insulting people. Is the petition about yoof stuff or about Russell Davis ? I really would reword it but that's just my advice, you can show people the way but they don't have to take it.

It's one thing to like the music of the past but that doesn't mean we all have to live there.

Anyway, good luck with the petition.
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Helen May



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMHO it wasn't insulting Rachel.

I don't live in the past either!

H
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FleetingEileenM



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

R2Icon wrote:

It's one thing to like the music of the past but that doesn't mean we all have to live there.


I don’t think any of us on here wants to live in the past. I can only speak for myself but I simply want the chance to hear erudite knowledgeable presenters who appreciate what has gone before. Music is evolutionary and you can hear the roots of a lot of present-day songs in those of previous generations. It’s interesting and fulfils the BBC’s aims to “inform, educate and entertain”.
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R2Icon



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Helen May wrote:
IMHO it wasn't insulting Rachel.

I don't live in the past either!

H


Unless otherwise stated , words have their normal English meaning, Helen. Insult is rarely felt by the person giving it. See my earlier post about Lasagne.

As I said earlier, good luck with the petition.
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Helen May



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did see your post Rachel and also it's not pre WWII music that I want.

I can't see the point of saying anything else on this matter.

H
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R2Icon



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://soundcloud.com/rachel-hooby/dolly-m-m


Helen May wrote:
I did see your post Rachel and also it's not pre WWII music that I want.

I can't see the point of saying anything else on this matter.

H


Me neither, music should bring people together. Try this, written and recorded just today. You won't hear this on R2 any time soon.(link at the top) Smile
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't normally participate in this kind of thread but it looked interesting so being nosey I thought I'd better check what was going on

Generally speaking I agree with Rach - I think there has to be a cut off point where we all accept that the past is exactly that but on the other hand I do agree that the over nineties have rights just like the rest of us

Perhaps the answer is to have shows like this on the network but rather more infrequently

Or perhaps the over ninties should persuade their relatives to provide them with the kind of music to which they can relate - after all they are very much a minority audience

And what really annoys me is the fact that I'm a great fan of rock music as are many other people but yet we've never had any sort of rock show on R2 - yet at the same time we're expected to put up with shows for the benefit of tiny minorities - well for me I'm sorry it's just not on Mad
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FleetingEileenM



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:

Perhaps the answer is to have shows like this on the network but rather more infrequently

Or perhaps the over ninties should persuade their relatives to provide them with the kind of music to which they can relate - after all they are very much a minority audience

And what really annoys me is the fact that I'm a great fan of rock music as are many other people but yet we've never had any sort of rock show on R2 - yet at the same time we're expected to put up with shows for the benefit of tiny minorities - well for me I'm sorry it's just not on Mad


I agree Ruddles that the over-90s must be a VERY small minority of listeners. On the other hand there are plenty of us decades younger than 90 who have a fair way to go before we reach that age but who are interested in the type of music we're talking about here - not just hearing it as there are umpteen CDs but learning about the background from "a good presenter who knows his audience" as Gillian Reynolds described Russell Davies.

I find it surprising that you say there has never been a rock show on Radio 2 but wasn't it Suzi Quatro who used to host one?? That is definitely a bad gap in the schedules. Space should be made for one but also for "our kind of music" as David Jacobs used to call it. Room should be found for both on a regular basis.
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Lord Evan Elpuss



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Radio 2 has 'dabbled' in rock. Several years ago Bruce Dickinson presented a series of rock programmes on Radio 2, sadly they were only ever on a temporary basis. At the time Bruce had a more permanent show on 6 Music. Sadly Bruce seems to have given up presenting radio shows. I wonder if he still flies airliners, oh, and of course, plays in Iron Maiden! At that time I remember lamenting at the lack of rock coverage on the Radio 2 message boards (remember them?) Especially as Folk, country & soul have always had dedicated shows, aired on a permanent basis. sadly, some 10 years on, things are still no better for rock music on Radio 2 Sad
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do take the point which you make Eileen and I'm not against the network catering for minorities - even very small minorities - if space in the schedule can be found but it rather sticks in my throat that certain minorities seem to be treated as untouchable when rock fans like me who are probably not even in the minority constantly get overlooked when it comes to programme schedules

Just think about it - I remember when the Rolling Stones first came to prominence around 1962/3 and a good number of their fans in those days were between 25 and 30 several years older than Mick Jagger and his colleagues and as the band are mostly now over seventy years old then some of their fans must be pushing 80 now - does anyone seriously think that such people want to listen to music from a previous era - I very much doubt it

My late mother in law even in her mid eighties used to scan the local papers and the internet for local rock gigs and used to go to them on most Saturday nights and rather embarassingly she used to introduce me to the talents of local rock bands Embarassed

It was she who drew my attention to the quality of a local Chester rock band called Quarterbridge whose cover version of the well known Blink 182 track 'All the Small Things' is absolutely legendary in these parts and possibly better than the original

As for the R2 and the lack of any decent rock show yes Suzi Quattro did present a form of this but it was mainly restricted to Rock and Roll and Rockabilly music whereas what I want to see is a show which covers all genres of rock from Progressive Rock to Punk and Indie Rock to Heavy Metal and New Wave

Last time I complained to the BBC on this topic I received a reply to the effect that nobody suitable was available to present such a show - well excuse me Auntie Beeb - even assuming the excellent Bruce Dickinson is unavailable what about Johnnie Walker Paul Gambacinni Lemmie Noel Gallagher and the like

Or here's a thought - why not give the gig to a certain sports reporter who just like My Hyde morphs into Dr Mosh every Wednesday at around 6.45pm?

He clearly knows and loves his rock and I reckon the great Alan'Fluff' Freeman would be saying 'not 'alf music fans' Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Specialist shows are their own worst enemy. It would be better to have an unrestricted range of music across all shows. Get rid of all the specialist shows is where I would go. There's nothing more annoying on the radio than a DJ like, say, little Macconi banging on about having seen this band or that band in the back room of some pub he used to frequent at a time before I was born. I don't care if he went to the little boys room with lead singer A or Dummer B or that he helped Guitarist C change the wheel on his transit van before any of them were famous. Just shut up and play the track!
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No sorry Rach - I'm afraid I have to disagree with you there - after all take folk music for example - how much would get played on R2 if we didn't have a show on Wednesday evenings?

And the same goes for Country Music Blues and Jazz

Mt gripe is that if a network is going to have specialist shows I've no problem with that but let's cater for the sizeable minorities before we start allocating airtime to stuff from 100 years ago which necessarily has very limited appeal to most listeners Sad
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FleetingEileenM



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only one of Russell's Sunday night shows to go now Sad. I must say I find his programmes fascinating. He has such a wealth of knowledge about songs and songwriters and I sincerely hope that his new Monday night show in the future will cover the same sort of ground.

He is erudite, respects his listeners, knows what he's talking about and plays quite diverse material some of which I have never even heard before.

He informs, educates and entertains. Isn't that what the BBC is supposed to do?
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MadeinSurrey



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So agree, Eileen. Pleased to hear he's getting a Monday show, wonder how long that will last? No doubt it will be 11pm or later, thanks goodness for Listen Again facility.
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Ian Robinson
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MadeinSurrey wrote:
No doubt it will be 11pm or later, thanks goodness for Listen Again facility.

Yes, been confirmed to be 11pm - sharing the slot with Jools Holland.
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FleetingEileenM



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

His show starts on Monday 2nd December, and yes, at 11pm!
He and Jools Holland will be alternating, each having series lasting 13 weeks.
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FleetingEileenM



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russell's final show was full of delightful recordings with as usual plenty of well-researched info and personal comments.

I particularly enjoyed Rebecca Kilgore's version of "I Thought About You". I'd always thought that Sinatra's recording was the definitive one but Rebecca included the intro lyrics which I'd never heard before and her rendition was so heartfelt that it made it special.

I'll miss Russell's programmes so much and look forward to his new series in December - but I still don't know how similar it will be to the Sunday night ones. Not too different, I hope!
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John W



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, will miss Russell. OK I haven't been listening every week recently, or even complete shows but the music and related information has always been OK with me.

I recall reading one of the articles quoting Bob Shennan, and he mentioned 'the cost' of 1-hour special shows, I think that's what he said. He mentioned it but didn't say what it was. Well there was also an article about BBC 1's Match of the Day - yes OK it's mass audience TV, no comparison, but I WILL compare the costs of PRESENTING.

Having read that the MOTD presenters cost over £100,000 a week - PRESENTING ONE EPISODE OF MOTD COSTS MORE THAN ONE YEAR OF PRESENTING RUSSELL DAVIES RADIO SHOW!
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Number Six



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not surprised John. When I had dark hair I worked for a company that built radio desks and studios. Did quite a bit of work for the BBC, both at BH and locally. I remember being told that the cost of one TV camera was far greater than the cost of building and equipping a whole radio studio
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Colin



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Number Six wrote:
I remember being told that the cost of one TV camera was far greater than the cost of building and equipping a whole radio studio


Very true. Back in the mid/late 70s the cost of a single "EMI 2001" 3-tube camera channel cost over £30,000. Today, TV cameras are much, much cheaper - even though the lenses cost a decent 5 figures still!
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Andy W



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Details of Russell's new show on Monday 2 December. Doesn't sound like he'll be following the old songs and songwriters theme.

Quote:
This brand-new series sees Russell Davies interview A-list legends of music, art, comedy and film. In this first instalment, Russell interviews soul, R&B and jazz singer Natalie Cole.
Natalie grew up into a very musical family. Recording from an early age with her father Nat King Cole, she managed to forge her own solo success in later years with the hit single This Will Be (An Everlasting Love), numerous best-selling albums and Grammy Awards. Natalie also recently performed in London at the recent Bluesfest festival.
She shares her memories with Russell, with music spanning from her early years to her most recent release Natalie Cole En Espanol.
Presenter/ Russell Davies, Producer/ Sarah Cropper for Wise Buddah Creative


http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/proginfo/2013/49/r2-mon-russell-davies-with.html
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FleetingEileenM



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that Andy. I've been checking the BBC Press Office page regularly for news of Russell's new programme and this one hasn't come up so far.

I'm disappointed that it is so different from his usual format but will listen anyway. I'm still angry with Radio 2 for calling a halt on his songs and songwriters show which was such a great continuation of the standard set by Benny Green.
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oldraver



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leo Green has a couple of shows on over Christmas, entitled Green On Hollywood. The first consists of clips of Benny's interviews with , amongst others, Astaire, Gene Kelly and Bing, interspersed with classic songs, and the second one will be about children's films and Disney.

I also hope the RD shows are better than the snippet from Andy's post suggests to me.
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Helen May



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he's doing a tour in the new year Raver. I noticed it on an email from Bridgewater Hall, it may be something to do with Irving Berlin but not 100% on that.

H
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FleetingEileenM



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Raver, I'll look out for the Green on Hollywood programmes.

And thank you Helen for the info about Leo Green's tour. It is entitled "Irving Berlin: From Rags to Ritzes" and will be at the Bridgewater Hall in Feb. It will also come to Bournemouth and the Royal Festival Hall so either would be OK for me. Matthew Ford will be taking part.
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oldraver



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that H. Here are more details...and still a seat or two available in the front row, for the RFH.

He's also playing sax for Wet Wet Wet...any takers? Embarassed

http://www.theleogreenexperience.com/see-leo-live/
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FleetingEileenM



Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 4808
Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russell's new series starts tonight.
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Helen May



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 17859
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It'll be iPlayer for me as I've had such a busy day!

H
_________________
88 - 91 FM this is Radio 2 from the BBC!

I said it live on air in the studio with Jeremy Vine on 10/3/2005
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eric mc



Joined: 28 Jan 2013
Posts: 48
Location: Farnborough Hants

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see the new show is yet another "Interview" type programme.

There are far too many such programmes on BBC radio now - spread betrween all the channels. What I am talkling about is having guests who chat about their life and select music that means something to them.

Desert Island Discs has been doing this for decades.

Do we weed another programme of this type?

What a waste of Russel Davies.
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Colin



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 916

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's obviously easier - and cheaper - to do. It doesn't need as much "production", only post-production. A sign of the finance-constrained times, unfortunately. Shennan has to protect much of his budget for the station's Big Names, after all!
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FleetingEileenM



Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 4808
Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I listened as it was Russell but really anyone could have done this interview. It was a sad waste of his rare talent in knowing and digging out fascinating bits of info to do with the history of popular music.

If Radio 2 refuse to use him in that way, I hope another station will pick him up in the future and give him a free hand.

If this series is not well-received, might the BBC use it as an excuse to dump him altogether? Sad
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