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The predictability of Radio 2 music programming

 
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Colin



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:57 am    Post subject: The predictability of Radio 2 music programming Reply with quote

I haven't listened to Jezza Vine for ages - largely because his tabloid style of current affairs gets my goat - but for the last couple of days he's been on the radio in the background while I work.

Today, as I type, he has just introduced a Van Morrisson track. Guess which one.......


....... yep. "Brown-Eyed Girl". Yet again. Will we be treated to a Beach Boys song before the end of the programme? Will it be "God Only Knows"? Well, God only knows.

Do producers and programme editors have any imagination or do they simply not care?

Answers on a postcard please.
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can we still buy postcards Colin?

I thought everything was run by modern technology these days Smile
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Schizoidman



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brown Eyed Girl is indeed predictable, and rather bland. Still, it's better than JV's beloved Elvis Costello or that appalling Werewolves of London rubbish that he's obsessed with.

I don't mind if God Only Knows is played. Paul McCartney said it is the best song ever written.

JV is of course first and foremost a journalist so he can be excused his appalling tastes in, and woeful lack of knowledge of, pop music. However, as a journalist he shouldn't have been so amazed two weeks ago when a newly arrived immigrant from the wilds of China told him that she had not heard of The Smiths' 'Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now'.
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Colin



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:
Can we still buy postcards Colin?

I thought everything was run by modern technology these days Smile


Of course they do. The ones from Moonpig.com!!! Smile

Schizoidman wrote:
Brown Eyed Girl is indeed predictable, and rather bland. Still, it's better than JV's beloved Elvis Costello or that appalling Werewolves of London rubbish that he's obsessed with.


Yes! Right on both counts.

Schizoidman wrote:
I don't mind if God Only Knows is played. Paul McCartney said it is the best song ever written.


I adore God Only Knows, but the lack of imagination (or is it just plain ignorance?) on the part of R2 producers is so frustrating.

Schizoidman wrote:
JV is of course first and foremost a journalist so he can be excused his appalling tastes in, and woeful lack of knowledge of, pop music. However, as a journalist he shouldn't have been so amazed two weeks ago when a newly arrived immigrant from the wilds of China told him that she had not heard of The Smiths' 'Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now'.


He's not even a very good journalist. In his show which discussed the much-feared TV Detector Vans, he was actually reading out a listener's email and believing what he was reading which declared that such vehicles never existed and that it was all part of a government-orchestrated terror campaign. Somebody else claimed that the equipment was all fake and never really worked. Both listeners are entirely wrong. For the next 10 minutes, however, Vine was asking "Well, did they exist? Get in touch if you believe they did".

I remember very clearly the Commer vans coming down my street in Devon in the 1960s and early 1970s. I was so angry at his utter stupidity that I had to switch over to some proper broadcast journalism in the form of The World At One on Radio 4.
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Number Six



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Totally agree Colin. I had high hopes for |Vine when he started but I can barely manage half an hour now. The show seems to consist of him getting excited, getting two people on who just shout over each other and then getting listeners to call in with their opinions which I really don't care about, especially since they are equal parts Daily Mail readers and Guardian readers.

As for the music, I am now terminally bored with this playlist. Just the same old records appearing on every show. Why? It all just appears to be a load of whining. I don't mind some current stuff - not Daft Punk or Bruno Mars obviously - but every hour on the hour?

And don't start me on the never ending programme trails.....
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also agree - the TV Detector Van thing was absolutely astonishing but even that is nothing compared to the occasion when JV announced on air that he'd never linked the lyrics in song 'Abraham,Martin and John' with famous events in the history of the USA Rolling Eyes
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Colin



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I much prefer the slot when his seat is occupied with stand-ins. They tend to be much better informed about home and world events and they don't act like proverbial cats on hot bricks in their presentation style, either. The way he cuts well-meaning callers off mid-flow merely to then play another boring song from the tired old Radio 2 playlist really gets my goat!
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unclebuck



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still dip into the JV show ocasionally, but as everyone else has pointed out, when the host hasn't really grasped the issue at hand, then a meaningful debate is pretty much impossible. Is it lack of preparation, or maybe not having the right people speaking in his ear?

This week there was the debate on hours that GPs should be available, but the discusions never got past a couple of silly points:

1. If surgeries were open for longer hours then every doctor would clock up an insane numbers of hours, and the proposals were therefore ridiculous! (Nobody mentioned staggering the hours of the GPs covering a practice.)
2. If people are genuinely ill, then they cannot be at work and they should be able to see a doctor during normal office hours, as at present. (This piece of idiocy went unchallenged, and was actually repeated by JV).

At other times, Jeremy does a decent job, but it just seems very patchy these days. I get the impression from the choice of subjects and from some the witless callers who are allowed onto the air that some of those around JV need to raise their game.


Last edited by unclebuck on Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Toggy



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

God Only knows is a fabulous song though, I always enjoy hearing it.
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Colin



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

unclebuck wrote:
I get the impression from the choice of subjects and from some the witless callers who are allowed onto the air that some of those around JV need to raise their game.


It's perhaps ironic that, according to JV himself early this week, his show is now rated as the most listened-to "current affairs radio show" in the UK.

Quite what that tells us about the expectations of the present-day listening public is perhaps the more disturbing element of it all.

PS: It's an argument I could apply to Evans' R2 breakfast show, but then again I didn't ought to go there....
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Number Six



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never held to the view that popularity equals quality. Quite the reverse. After all, isn't the Sun the most popular daily newspaper?

To be quite revolting about it, dog **** is a wholesome and nutritious food. Tens of billion of flies can't all be wrong
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gazmando



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it such a shame the way the music programming had gone on Radio 2 and don't understand why they employ producers like the dreaded Gary Bones who have zero imagination.
Recently Ken Bruce played "Wake Me Up" by Amici (I think it's called) every day for 4 weeks, then Michael Ball took over
and played it every day for 2 weeks, then Ken came back and played it every day for the next 3 weeks.
I just find that completely thoughtless and lacking in any effort on the producers part.
When Michael Ball does his show on a Sunday he plays a great selection of music and shows a great love for a lot of songs that he plays, yet when he was lumbered with Gary Bones he became just another daytime clone.
There is some good stuff still that has a great variety of music that could easily be played during daytime without alienating listeners, like Michael Ball and Paul O'Grady.
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Lord Evan Elpuss



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gazmando wrote:

When Michael Ball does his show on a Sunday he plays a great selection of music and shows a great love for a lot of songs that he plays, yet when he was lumbered with Gary Bones he became just another daytime clone.
There is some good stuff still that has a great variety of music that could easily be played during daytime without alienating listeners, like Michael Ball and Paul O'Grady.

They do indeed, Paul & Michael's shows remind me of the great days of Radio 2 in the latter half of the 1990s & first few years of the 2000s (yes, you've got it, the pre - Lesley Douglas era!) when things weren't as predictable.
The funny things, When Richard Allinson had a three hour Saturday afternoon show 10 - 15 years ago (a frightening amount of years ago now!) Gary Bones was the producer and you regularly heard something unusual that, perhaps, you hadn't heard for many years. Yes, I would like to ask him what's changed in more recent years, especially when things didn't seem so bad at first when he initially took over producing Ken Bruce's show.
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Ian Robinson
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Evan Elpuss wrote:
The funny things, When Richard Allinson had a three hour Saturday afternoon show 10 - 15 years ago (a frightening amount of years ago now!) Gary Bones was the producer and you regularly heard something unusual that, perhaps, you hadn't heard for many years.

The memory cheats. Allinson's Saturday show was the blandest around, with the same "long songs" every few weeks and the boring old 70s stuff ad nauseum. It is exactly this dull playlist which got Bones the Ken Bruce job as the bosses wanted to play safe in daytime to boost the ratings and not cause anyone any offence.
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Colin



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It depends what we each want from our programming. My memory doesn't cheat me - I can remember back to the great pirate era of the 60s very well so it must be OK. I quite liked Allinson's Saturday afternoon show and it was often a good accompaniment to a Saturday afternoon doing stuff around the place, whereas I find the current presenter's presentation style interminably dull. I do like the exposure it gives to little-heard-of artists though, but O'Dreary isn't the most appropriate front person (in my humble opinion). There are plenty of better people to take on that job and he should stick to "bigging up" the many hopeless X-Factor hopefuls.
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Number Six



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh dear God. Vine is now actually contrasting Malala Yousafzai with Miley Cyrus.

So finally he has now stopped scraping the bottom of the barrel and is busily exploring what lies beneath
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Colin



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've beaten me to it. The radio has been on all morning (well, since 9.30am) in the office and I've just realised that I'm now hearing Vine.

This discussion about "Malala versus Miley" as role models is totally and utterly ridiculous.

I can't stand it any longer. Radio 4 we come. Again.
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought it was a singularly pointless discussion

Yes on the face of it at first glance people might think that there is a huge difference between the two women but in actual fact just ask yourself what Malala is standing up for - the rights of women to receive a proper education and to have freedom of choice in marriage and to have the freedom to wear whatever clothes they choose

And what is Miley Cyrus doing - exercising that choice as a female to do so whatever people may think of her and I for one say good luck to her

Both women are basically pushing the same points except that Miley being a western girl is lucky enough to live in a country which is light years ahead of the Muslim world which seems to believe that the whole world should be living in the middle ages - and yes Malala is a very brave young lady for standing her ground against the evil people in this world but surely we can respect both women for what they have achieved Smile
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essexlady



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have absolutely no respect for Miley Cyrus. If the only way she can express her freedom of choice is to dress and act in a pornographic manner then I despair of our "advanced" society.
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Number Six



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:
I thought it was a singularly pointless discussion

Yes on the face of it at first glance people might think that there is a huge difference between the two women but in actual fact just ask yourself what Malala is standing up for - the rights of women to receive a proper education and to have freedom of choice in marriage and to have the freedom to wear whatever clothes they choose

And what is Miley Cyrus doing - exercising that choice as a female to do so whatever people may think of her and I for one say good luck to her

Both women are basically pushing the same points except that Miley being a western girl is lucky enough to live in a country which is light years ahead of the Muslim world which seems to believe that the whole world should be living in the middle ages - and yes Malala is a very brave young lady for standing her ground against the evil people in this world but surely we can respect both women for what they have achieved Smile


The problem there Ruddles is that Cyrus is hardly a trailblazer in this. She just the latest in a long line of "look at me" types who think this is just another way of becoming a bigger celebrity. Who was that one a few months ago who was filming a video when the owner made her put her clothes on. It's just a cynical ploy to up the ante and raise her profile. Pure self obsession. You could hardly say that about Malala who just wants an education
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Colin



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

essexlady wrote:
If the only way she can express her freedom of choice is to dress and act in a pornographic manner then I despair of our "advanced" society.


Wasn't that the criticism being laid against Mick Jagger in 1964 - and Elvis Presley a decade before that? Smile

By the way, my radio found its way to Pat Sharpe on Smooth while Jezza was being boring (quite know how it found its way to that awful station is anybody's guess) but within a few seconds of it locking in to the DAB stream I heard him say "And after the break, a great classic from Van Morrison". That was encouraging. Perhaps we're going to hear "Coney Island", "Real, Real Gone", "Days Like This", "Have I Told You Lately?" or other wonderful works from the great man.

After the break, what do we hear? "Bright Side Of The Road".

One despairs, one really does.
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Lord Evan Elpuss



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Colin wrote:
After the break, what do we hear? "Bright Side Of The Road".


Well, it wasn't 'Brown Eyed Girl'!!
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essexlady



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh well Colin I am very old and have two teenage grand-daughters. I do worry about the influence on them of "stars" like Miley Cyrus and Rhianna (sp?) but hope they won't grow up thinking that the only way to make their mark on the world is to shock people. Anyway I was a big Elvis fan but don't recall him stripping off and simulating the sex act (although my parents may have disagreed about that last statement)
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Colin



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

essexlady wrote:
Anyway I was a big Elvis fan but don't recall him stripping off and simulating the sex act (although my parents may have disagreed about that last statement)


My late grand-mother, who was born in 1894, used to say "That Elvis bloke is depravitated (sic) and that there Mike Jayger (sic) is disGUSTing. They're a bad influence and should be banned. What's the world coming to?"
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Number Six wrote:
ruddlescat wrote:
I thought it was a singularly pointless discussion

Yes on the face of it at first glance people might think that there is a huge difference between the two women but in actual fact just ask yourself what Malala is standing up for - the rights of women to receive a proper education and to have freedom of choice in marriage and to have the freedom to wear whatever clothes they choose

And what is Miley Cyrus doing - exercising that choice as a female to do so whatever people may think of her and I for one say good luck to her

Both women are basically pushing the same points except that Miley being a western girl is lucky enough to live in a country which is light years ahead of the Muslim world which seems to believe that the whole world should be living in the middle ages - and yes Malala is a very brave young lady for standing her ground against the evil people in this world but surely we can respect both women for what they have achieved Smile


The problem there Ruddles is that Cyrus is hardly a trailblazer in this. She just the latest in a long line of "look at me" types who think this is just another way of becoming a bigger celebrity. Who was that one a few months ago who was filming a video when the owner made her put her clothes on. It's just a cynical ploy to up the ante and raise her profile. Pure self obsession. You could hardly say that about Malala who just wants an education


But I do think you're rather missing the point here - what Malala is bravely standing up for is freedom for women to live their own lives in freedom and that includes them having the right to docertain things which some people might not like - I've no particular brief for Miley any more than I have for artists like One Direction but however untalented certain people might thing they are in a free society they have the right to do what they're doing

As for Miley copying other previous artists that may be true but didn't Blur copy The Kinks and Oasis copy The Beatles? - and in the world of politics Cameron is very much aping Tony Blair

And wouldn't it be great if other Asian girls started copying Malala which probably will happen sooner or later

The right to jump on the bandwagon might make for a boring person as some see it but in a free society it's hardly something new or shocking Smile Smile
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Colin



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:
As for Miley copying other previous artists that may be true but didn't Blur copy The Kinks and Oasis copy The Beatles?


Yes, fair point. Let's not forget, also, that by their own admission the individual members of the Beatles were aping their musical heroes - everybody from Elvis to Buddy Holly to BB King and Muddy Waters. And George and Ringo's rockabilly influences came through as well. The same was true (though with some different influences) of the Rolling Stones. And so on.

I have no problem with Miley Cyrus or what she's doing (it's happening, after all, and I'm not going to stop it even if I wanted to) but I hold a brighter candle to Malala because she - through a terrifying set of circumstances which almost led to her losing her life - has unwittingly gained worldwide publicity for a cause that needs publicising. Good for her.
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becky sharp



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Number Six wrote:
Who was that one a few months ago who was filming a video when the owner made her put her clothes on.


Rihanna ...and it's a couple of years ago..Shocked..does seem like it was only a few months ago,though.
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essexlady



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see that Annie Lennox has joined in the discussion by suggesting that music videos should be age rated.
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Number Six



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:
Number Six wrote:
ruddlescat wrote:
I thought it was a singularly pointless discussion

Yes on the face of it at first glance people might think that there is a huge difference between the two women but in actual fact just ask yourself what Malala is standing up for - the rights of women to receive a proper education and to have freedom of choice in marriage and to have the freedom to wear whatever clothes they choose

And what is Miley Cyrus doing - exercising that choice as a female to do so whatever people may think of her and I for one say good luck to her

Both women are basically pushing the same points except that Miley being a western girl is lucky enough to live in a country which is light years ahead of the Muslim world which seems to believe that the whole world should be living in the middle ages - and yes Malala is a very brave young lady for standing her ground against the evil people in this world but surely we can respect both women for what they have achieved Smile


The problem there Ruddles is that Cyrus is hardly a trailblazer in this. She just the latest in a long line of "look at me" types who think this is just another way of becoming a bigger celebrity. Who was that one a few months ago who was filming a video when the owner made her put her clothes on. It's just a cynical ploy to up the ante and raise her profile. Pure self obsession. You could hardly say that about Malala who just wants an education


But I do think you're rather missing the point here - what Malala is bravely standing up for is freedom for women to live their own lives in freedom and that includes them having the right to docertain things which some people might not like - I've no particular brief for Miley any more than I have for artists like One Direction but however untalented certain people might thing they are in a free society they have the right to do what they're doing

As for Miley copying other previous artists that may be true but didn't Blur copy The Kinks and Oasis copy The Beatles? - and in the world of politics Cameron is very much aping Tony Blair

And wouldn't it be great if other Asian girls started copying Malala which probably will happen sooner or later

The right to jump on the bandwagon might make for a boring person as some see it but in a free society it's hardly something new or shocking Smile Smile


It wasn't Miley copying other artists that bothers me. As you and Colin rightly say all artists have influences that they bring into their music. I actually have no idea what influences Cyrus has and, at my age, that's a good thing. What I'm not happy about is this desperate rush by her and others to outdo each other in the cheap and tawdry stakes while the tabloids lap it up. While I don't have children, so I don't really care, I hardly think that this desire to perform in as few clothes as possible is a good role model for young girls.

You're right of course, bandwagon jumping is nothing new. Just look at our politicians. I'm not attacking Cyrus for it, just Vine for going down to those levels
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we have to look back in history to get the present issue in context

As Colin rightly says probably the first of this genre was Elvis although I think Doris Day had her moments

Fast forward to the late sixties when Je t'aime moi non plus very famously hit the headlines - banned by virtually every radio station in the world except Radio Luxembourg

Does anyone remember a track called 'Wet Dream' released in 1969 by Jamaican artist Max Romeo which reached Number 10 in the charts in August of that year- just view it on You Tube and listen to the lyrics - far more shocking than anything Miley is doing now I would suggest Shocked

Then we have the numerous tracks by Judge Dread in the early seventies most of which I found really amusing but banned by the BBC in the interests of bad taste Evil or Very Mad - not to mention the likes of Cameo with their very sexual dance surrounding their fashion codpieces and even Michael Jackson in his dance moves placing his hands close to his genitals - and of course The Sex Pistols and all that followed in the world of seventies punk

Fast forward to the age of Pop Videos and we come across Frankie Goes To Hollywood in 1984 with the now very mainstream track 'Relax'

This was closely followed a couple of years later by Madonna with her shocking skimpy basques and 'Like A Prayer ' video and in the late nineties she was copied by the likes of Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera

Since then we've had Rhianna who in my view is actually a very good musical artist despite her highly publicised skimpy or even nude shoots

And now we have Miley Cyrus who is simply the latest in a very long tradition of artists who achieve fame by pushing the boundaries of shock behaviour and she certainly won't be the last

We simply must in my view accept that boundaries in issues of taste and decency will be pushed further and further and personally I don't really feel any different about the subject than nearly 45 years ago in the days when I used to listen to Radio Luxembourg through an earpiece under my bed cover hoping my parents would think I was sound asleep Smile Shocked Shocked Shocked
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Colin



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:
Fast forward to the late sixties when Je t'aime moi non plus very famously hit the headlines - banned by virtually every radio station in the world except Radio Luxembourg


It also got my wife excluded from school for a day! At secondary school in Amersham, her French teacher asked the class to bring in to the next lesson "something French". My wife took in her copy of "Je T'aime Mois Non Plus" which the teacher placed onto the classroom record player (those were the days, eh?).

Within no time at all all the girls in the class were giggling like crazy, the teacher's face when red and then purple with rage and the stylus was ripped off the record very hastily!

ruddlescat wrote:
Does anyone remember a track called 'Wet Dream' released in 1969 by Jamaican artist Max Romeo which reached Number 10 in the charts in August of that year- just view it on You Tube and listen to the lyrics - far more shocking than anything Miley is doing now I would suggest Shocked


That's another of her favourite songs. They had an end-of-term bash and the girls were invited to "do a turn", so she and her best friend Melinda decided to sing along to the Max Romeo record.

Do you see a pattern emerging here? Smile
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Number Six



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your wife's school sounds like a lot more fun than mine Colin
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Colin



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Number Six wrote:
Your wife's school sounds like a lot more fun than mine Colin


And mine! Mind you, I didn't go to a girl's school!!! (I wish I did - t'would have been fun methinks!)
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ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like your better half and her friend would have been well at ease as pupils at St Trinians Colin Smile
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