R2OK! Forum Index R2OK!
Contact R2OK! admin

Click here for R2OK! Website


 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Jack Straw and Malcom Rifkind caught taking cash for access

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    R2OK! Forum Index -> News and Current Affairs
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mark occomore



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 9955
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:44 pm    Post subject: Jack Straw and Malcom Rifkind caught taking cash for access Reply with quote

Quote:
Two former foreign secretaries have been suspended from their parliamentary parties after being secretly filmed apparently offering their services to a private company for cash.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31589202

____________________

These stories will keep happening until MP's won't be able to have any outside interests and that won't happen. The influence of outside interests helps parties receive donations and MP's elected. The problem is we all know what MP's are paid as it's on the tin, so what do you do?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whilst I'm not a huge fan of most of our current crop of MPs surely the answer is to pay them more for the job

An ordinary backbench MP currently receives a salary of around £67000 which might sound a lot but just compare it with what the average GP gets paid - around £120000 per year - and of course most MPs have to have accommodation both in London and in their own constituency

I'm quite sure that this is why the whole expenses scandal came about which was absolutely disgusting but because MPs were fairly badly paid there was a culture of them feeling underpaid thus wrongly entitling them to employ very creative accounting techniques when it came to claiming expenses

Also if we paid MPs a proper basic salary it might encourage more ordinay people to get involved rather than existing rich people who aren't put off by the low rates of pay and simply see the job as a way of building business contacts and getting richer by that method Smile
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
unclebuck



Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 256
Location: Warwickshire

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't look as though the rules will change anytime soon. I don't know how anyone can really believe that being an MP should not be regarded as a full time occupation, but the notion of multiple employment conveniently allows the waters to remain muddied when it comes to us judging the vested interests of our elected (supposed) representatives. We should not expect those turkeys with their beaks firmly in the trough, to be voting for Christmas!
(I got a blender recently, and I'm using it extensively for my metaphors).

Personally, I would double the MPs' salary, and then limit them to what should be their primary role in life, but that will never happen.

PS. I never liked Malcolm Rifkind's attitude anyway, and I am not surprised at the fate that has befallen him.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there is also a valid argument that any person wishing to stand for Parliament should have had at least ten years experience in a career or a variety of careers in the 'real world' before being allowed to become a MP - thus getting rid of professional politicians including the likes of Cameron,Clegg,Balls and Milliband Smile
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Helen May



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 18066
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally agree that politicians should have had career experience before being allowed to stand for Parliament. In, I probably expect, most cases there are very few who have, so therefore have no idea of life for those outside the 'Westminster bubble'.

H
_________________
88 - 91 FM this is Radio 2 from the BBC!

I said it live on air in the studio with Jeremy Vine on 10/3/2005
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
becky sharp



Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 5727

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

unclebuck wrote:
It doesn't look as though the rules will change anytime soon. I don't know how anyone can really believe that being an MP should not be regarded as a full time occupation, but the notion of multiple employment conveniently allows the waters to remain muddied when it comes to us judging the vested interests of our elected (supposed) representatives. We should not expect those turkeys with their beaks firmly in the trough, to be voting for Christmas!
(I got a blender recently, and I'm using it extensively for my metaphors).

Personally, I would double the MPs' salary, and then limit them to what should be their primary role in life, but that will never happen.

PS. I never liked Malcolm Rifkind's attitude anyway, and I am not surprised at the fate that has befallen him.

Well he's a stranger to the truth for a start...he said in that video...
“You’d be surprised how much free time I have. I am self-employed. So nobody pays me a salary, I have to earn my income.
Later, after being pulled up on this, he said that that was a "silly thing to say"....well he would do wouldn't he?..after the fact.

Last year he charged a charity £5,000 for a one hour speech...what a charmer!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sir-malcolm-rifkind-charged-jewish-charity-5000-for-onehour-speech-10067541.html

Just to balance it up a little, in case it seems I'm picking on Malcolm Rifkind, I don't think either him or Jack Straw come out of this smelling of roses.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree Becky and I used to know Jack Straw in the seventies in the days when he was president of the national union of students

He was an a--hole then and he still is

He's actually ruined my life along with Tony Blair so for me the man is a complete evil bastard Evil or Very Mad
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
becky sharp



Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 5727

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:
I agree Becky and I used to know Jack Straw in the seventies in the days when he was president of the national union of students

He was an a--hole then and he still is

He's actually ruined my life along with Tony Blair so for me the man is a complete evil bastard Evil or Very Mad
Personally, I wouldn't go that far,ruddles. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps you have'nt experienced having your life ruined by Blair and his cohorts Becky- unlike me

You are clearly one of the ones who blindly voted for Blair in the nineties irrespective of the huge damage he was doing to this country at the time not least because of the lies he told over the Iraq war

The man is a complete wan--r Evil or Very Mad
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
becky sharp



Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 5727

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:
Perhaps you have'nt experienced having your life ruined by Blair and his cohorts Becky- unlike me

You are clearly one of the ones who blindly voted for Blair in the nineties irrespective of the huge damage he was doing to this country at the time not least because of the lies he told over the Iraq war

The man is a complete wan--r Evil or Very Mad
Hang on there,ruddles....don't presume to know how I voted back then or now for that matter.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Becky I'd never presume who anyone had voted for but anyone who defends Blair these days has a huge problem - I really hope you didn't vote for the worst Prime Minister in the history of this country

And if you didn't vote for it why are you suggesting you support it Confused
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
becky sharp



Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 5727

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:
Well Becky I'd never presume who anyone had voted for but anyone who defends Blair these days has a huge problem - I really hope you didn't vote for the worst Prime Minister in the history of this country

And if you didn't vote for it why are you suggesting you support it Confused
It's got nothing to do with you who I vote for,ruddles.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True Becky but if you're an active member of a forum like this one and you post about issues you're always going to have to justify your opinions - and we can all glean quite a lot about your political leanings from that - I'm not being critical - just pointing out the obvious Smile
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
becky sharp



Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 5727

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:
True Becky but if you're an active member of a forum like this one and you post about issues you're always going to have to justify your opinions - and we can all glean quite a lot about your political leanings from that - I'm not being critical - just pointing out the obvious Smile
I don't feel I have to justify my opinions to anyone.
This forum is hardly a hotbed of politics where there are discussions day after day.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Helen May



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 18066
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know we don't vote for the Prime Minister in this country Ruddles. It's also quite possible that some members of his party can be admired even if you don't agree with their politics!

Margaret Thatcher even said that 'Britain was in safe hands with Tony Blair as leader'.........not sure I'd totally agree with that but there we are!

H
_________________
88 - 91 FM this is Radio 2 from the BBC!

I said it live on air in the studio with Jeremy Vine on 10/3/2005
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
becky sharp



Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 5727

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Helen May wrote:
You know we don't vote for the Prime Minister in this country Ruddles.It's also quite possible that some members of his party can be admired even if you don't agree with their politics!

Margaret Thatcher even said that 'Britain was in safe hands with Tony Blair as leader'.........not sure I'd totally agree with that but there we are!

H
Agreed Helen!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes that's fair comment but it just annoys me that so many people in this country were taken in by one Mr Blair but now won't admit to actually voting for his party at the time when they must have known he would become PM

If that disgusting apology for a human being had never been elected then the chances are that the middle east would now be a far less hostile place and we wouldn't be worried about people being beheaded in the street in our own country Sad
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
becky sharp



Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 5727

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:
Yes that's fair comment but it just annoys me that so many people in this country were taken in by one Mr Blair but now won't admit to actually voting for his party at the time
I can't see any circumstances where anyone would have to,as you say, 'admit' how they voted. (unless they had a visit from the Spanish Inquisition perhaps? Twisted Evil ) I have never,in polite conversation, ever been asked how I vote nor would I ever expect to be.
ruddlescat wrote:
when they must have known he would become PM
Confused
Well,people are hardly likely to vote for the party of someone they don't want to become PM!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps I'm unusual Becky but I'm always quite happy to tell people how I have voted and how I intend to vote in the future

I just don't get the 'secrecy' thing at all but of course I would always respect a person's right not to disclose their voting preferences in what is a secret ballot - that point is not in issue

Whilst officially we elect a constituency MP in a General Election rather than voting for our choice of Prime Minister effectively anyone who votes Labour or Conservative knows who will be PM if their chosen party wins so is our position really all that different TO the likes of the USA? Smile
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Colin



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 916

PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:
Whilst officially we elect a constituency MP in a General Election rather than voting for our choice of Prime Minister effectively anyone who votes Labour or Conservative knows who will be PM if their chosen party wins so is our position really all that different TO the likes of the USA? Smile


In 1997, my Labour Party candidate lived in the constituency and was (and still is) a friend of mine. I voted for him on the strength of his own policies and commitment. I knew that if his party gained power then Blair would become PM. At the time, I and lots of others saw that as a good thing, but of course the decisions that had to be made on the issue of conflict in Iraq changed all that. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, is it not?

The problem with the Labour Party is that thanks to Blair, Brown, Mandelson and the like it's now led by career politicians who are actually centrists - in other words, Tories by another name.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lord Evan Elpuss



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land

PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:
so is our position really all that different TO the likes of the USA? Smile

The powers that be in this country (including the various media) seem to want to 'Americanise' as much of our lives as they can, including our elections (or, at least general elections) But how likely are they to include the rule that they have in the USA about a president not being able to serve more than two terms in office? Which means that Barack Obama will not be in the White House after their next election, even if Barack's party wins it. Whilst I feel a sense of despair at the creeping Americanisation of our country, I'll bet that they won't introduce a similar rule over here that limits a prime minister to just two terms in 10 Downing St. However, that's one occasion when I'd love to be proved wrong.
_________________
Lord Evan Elpuss, Your ideal job is a Lumberjack.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Colin



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 916

PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Evan Elpuss wrote:
I'll bet that they won't introduce a similar rule over here that limits a prime minister to just two terms in 10 Downing St. However, that's one occasion when I'd love to be proved wrong.


But in the USA they have Primaries in which people effectively end up casting votes for one of two Presidential candidates, whereas here it's our 650+ MPs whose elected party leader who becomes PM, and the manner in which they determine this changes from party to party.

To be honest, I'd rather have this system that the US one. However, I agree with you on the increasingly American approach to national and local politics; this new trend for the Leaders' Debates on TV is one such example which, in my opinion, is a complete and utter waste of time and resources, and merely serves to focus people's attention on the participants' ability to score points against each other. What nonsense.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lord Evan Elpuss



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land

PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Colin wrote:

To be honest, I'd rather have this system that the US one.

I wouldn't want the whole U.S. election experience. Doesn't it go on for a year or more before a president is actually elected? I just want the two term limit imposed on our prime minister. One could then feel a huge sense of relief in the knowledge that an unpopular prime minister will not be in situ for a third term, but by the same token, there would be sadness that a popular one would also not have a third term of office.
_________________
Lord Evan Elpuss, Your ideal job is a Lumberjack.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Schizoidman



Joined: 20 Sep 2010
Posts: 1133
Location: Rural West Sussex

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it seems that David Cameron also agrees with the two term limit...on himself at least!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    R2OK! Forum Index -> News and Current Affairs All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group. Hosted by phpBB.BizHat.com