R2OK! Forum Index R2OK!
Contact R2OK! admin

Click here for R2OK! Website


 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Gray and Keys Sexism Row

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    R2OK! Forum Index -> The Sports Bar
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mark occomore



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 9955
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:01 pm    Post subject: Gray and Keys Sexism Row Reply with quote

Quote:
Sky Sports presenters Andy Gray and Richard Keys were at the centre of a sexism row last night after they questioned whether a female linesman knew the offside rule during a Premier League football match.

The commentators, who apparently believed their microphones were switched off, were recorded making disparaging remarks about Sian Massey, 25, before Liverpool’s Premiership clash with Wolves yesterday.

They also criticised Apprentice star and West Ham vice-chairman Karren Brady who had yesterday written about sexism in a newspaper column.

Commenting on Ms Massey, Mr Keys said: ‘Somebody better get down there and explain offside to her.’

Mr Gray, a former Scottish international footballer, replied: ‘Can you believe that? A female linesman. Women don’t know the offside rule.’

Mr Keys replied: ‘Course they don’t. I can guarantee you there will be a big one today. Kenny (Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish) will go potty. This isn’t the first time, is it? Didn’t we have one before?’
Assistant referee Sian Massey

The Sky presenters made disparaging remarks about assistant referee Sian Massey

Later in the exchange, Mr Keys said: ‘The game’s gone mad. Did you hear charming Karren Brady this morning complaining about sexism? Do me a favour, love.’

Ms Brady had said she had ‘experienced sexism at its rankest, lies about my personal life and a level of calculated mischief that is simply appalling’.

Asked about the pundits’ remarks, she said: ‘I think this just sums up everything I said in my column.’

During the game, which Liverpool won 3-0, Ms Massey angered Wolves by refusing to rule Raul Meireles offside before he set up Liverpool’s first goal. The replay showed that she made the correct decision.

When The Mail on Sunday put the transcript to Mr Keys, he said: ‘I have no recollection of that. I have no idea what you are talking about.

'My recollection is that I wished the young lady all the best.’

When told a recording existed of the conversation, he said: ‘If you have a tape then you don’t need me to talk to you.’

Last night The Mail on Sunday sent a transcript and a copy of the recording to a Sky Sports spokeswoman.

She was not able to confirm or deny the veracity of the clip, which was provided to this newspaper by an anonymous source.

Mr Gray could not be reached last night.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1349729/Sky-Sports-presenters-sexist-diatribe-female-linesman-Apprentice-star-Karren-Brady.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Schizoidman



Joined: 20 Sep 2010
Posts: 1140
Location: Rural West Sussex

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw the goal and it was clearly a correct decision by the lady, who seems to know the offside rule more than the two morons concerned.
I don't suppose these two cretins will apologise.
At least they've been dropped from tonight's commentary.

Sadly players, managers, directors, commentators and fans are still living in the past.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always been very impressed with the performance of female officials when I've seen them involved in matches and I think there should be more in the Premier League

As people here may know I'm also a keen fan of Rugby League and there is an excellent lady who now regularly does video refereeing and is probably better than most of her male colleagues

And then there's Michaela the snooker referee who has proved herself capable at the highest level

Just because some women don't like sport is no reason for men to be prejudiced against those who do Sad
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tiny51



Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 915

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These remarks are akin to what Big Ron said a few years ago, he lost his job. Dont suppose these 2 will.
And what about that player who posted the pic of a ref in utd shirt.
If managers said this the book would be thrown at them, but as these 2 are not anything to do with football just a couple of commentators they are above the laws which govern the game they represent.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Andy Gray as a former Wolves and Everton player is biased against Liverpool anyway as I've noticed this before

Well done to Ms Massey for getting it right

Judging from the general appauling standard of Premier League refereeing I'd like to see her in charge of matches
She can't be any worse than what we have now
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
littlepieces



Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 1098
Location: Lowestoft

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy Grey has always been full of himself and Keys acts like his little puppy.What they said was stupid and petty
_________________
I found out how you can hurt an insect.It's the bees knees
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Schizoidman



Joined: 20 Sep 2010
Posts: 1140
Location: Rural West Sussex

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ruddles: if you think the standard of Premiership refereeing is bad, you should try lower down the leagues!

Having said that, they always get criticised for mistakes and never praised for their correct decisions. What really annoys me is when the 'experts' in the studio, and managers, never apologise for getting it wrong.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the general standard of Championship referees is a great deal better than in the Premier League

I can't really comment on Leagues 1 and 2 as I only go to the occasional Shrewsbury game if they're playing a reasonable team

I think Messrs Keyes and Gray are skating on very thin ice though because most of the female presenters on Sky Sports are quite knowledgeable and could probably hold their own against either of those two idiots

I'd much rather watch football on the BBC where it belongs but sadly Sky are now able to monopolise coverage in a way which has proved bad for the game which has now come down to a battle of bank balances rather than a battle of tactics and football skills as it should be Sad
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
becky sharp



Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 5940

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After actually hearing what they said rather than reading it there is no mistake as to how they meant it ..they couldn't have been more derisory if they had tried ...."unreconstructed old fashioned old blokes" was just one of the terms I heard them called today and they fully deserve that and much more.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John W



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 3360
Location: Warwickshire, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those guys need to think what they have said, and get on the Sky News and apologise. Have either of them ever refereed a game?

I've mentioned elsewhere on this part of the forum that I witnessed Amy Fearn becoming the first woman referee ever to take charge of a league game, between Coventry and Nottingham Forest in Feb 2010. The original ref suffered an injury and an on-pitch meeting of the other officials elected that she take charge, and what a great decision.

She was flawless, and it was amusing seeing the respect that the players gave her decisions, no f-ing and blinding at HER! Razz
_________________
-
John W
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
becky sharp



Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 5940

PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From today's Guardian ...


Can the man on the street explain the offside rule?

Certain commentators may have doubts about women's grasp of the offside rule, but can the average man on the street explain it? G2 went to find out


http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/video/2011/jan/24/gender-offside-rule-women-men

Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Eric Shone



Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

becky sharp wrote:
From today's Guardian ...


Can the man on the street explain the offside rule?

Certain commentators may have doubts about women's grasp of the offside rule, but can the average man on the street explain it? G2 went to find out


http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/video/2011/jan/24/gender-offside-rule-women-men

Very Happy


Edited highlights for sure.

Anyways I don't watch football and I could make a stab at explaining the off-side rule, but I just think this has been blown out of proportion. It was a joke - and a reasonably funny one at that. Take a joke people!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it was a joke Eric why could they not have said it on air?

The fact is it was a blatently sexist conversation between two men both of whom are full of themselves with giant egos and who in my opinion should have been sacked immediately

It has taken many years to get to the point where English football has mainly been rid of its racist attitudes and the last thing we need is for these to be replaced by sexist attitudes

I enjoyed the match on Sky last night without these two overpaid idiots and I don't want to see them back

There are plenty of other people who can do the job equally well so why stick with people who have proved themselves to be a liability
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rachel
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m not too worried about what they said, really. We all know that this sort of thing is said up and down the land in pubs every night of the week. Who cares? Boys will be boys. We all know that a lot of men think that way. Men get a rough deal really- is there nowhere left for them to be what they are? If Clarkson had said it- no one would care. It’s only because it was on Sky that we even heard about it on the BBC. Funny that.
Back to top
undiscovered



Joined: 15 Sep 2010
Posts: 650
Location: Peterborough

PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eric Shone wrote:
Edited highlights for sure.

Anyways I don't watch football and I could make a stab at explaining the off-side rule, but I just think this has been blown out of proportion. It was a joke - and a reasonably funny one at that. Take a joke people!


You can say many things about this incident like it didn't go out live, or it wasn't meant to be heard etc etc but no way can you say that what they said was a joke, they both got into similar trouble during the ladies world cup for opening gob before engaging brain.

It will used an excuse to get rid of the old guard at sky, which to be fair isn't great coverage, although not really a surprise as it only seems to be Jeremy HUnt who thinks Sky is good for British consumers
_________________
You will hear gospel and rhythm and blues and jazz, all those are just labels, we know that music is music.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
littlepieces



Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 1098
Location: Lowestoft

PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gray has been sacked.He was on 1.7 million a year(mind you that is according to the daily mail)
Sky have now shown more footage of him being sexist and there is a clip of him on you tube so it's not even an isolated incident
_________________
I found out how you can hurt an insect.It's the bees knees
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mark occomore



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 9955
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah! The face of Sky Sports and once a great footballer and his TV career is over for the time being. Seems it went to far just like Russell Brand and Jonathan Ross did on Radio 2.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Eric Shone



Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I can't actually find any videos so if someone has a link please link me, but I still think that political correctness has gone mad.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
John W



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 3360
Location: Warwickshire, UK

PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes he's gone and good riddance. I just hope he is man enough to not even think of the unfair dismissal action.

He was speaking off-air, but he was on duty for Sky, and brought the company and the sport and broadcasting industry in general into disrepute.
_________________
-
John W
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
mark occomore



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 9955
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy Gray is apparently involved in a high court battle against the News Of The World along with other famous names involving alleations of hacking into his voicemail. I wonder what that could reveal?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Eric Shone



Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
Andy Gray is apparently involved in a high court battle against the News Of The World along with other famous names involving alleations of hacking into his voicemail. I wonder what that could reveal?


So you'd be quite happy to have your private phone calls revealed to the world? I very much doubt that. Under no circumstances should the media be allowed to invade peoples privacy in such a way. But I'm sure you're quite happy with the "if you've nothing to hide then you've nothing to fear" idea.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
John W



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 3360
Location: Warwickshire, UK

PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eric Shone wrote:
mark occomore wrote:
Andy Gray is apparently involved in a high court battle against the News Of The World along with other famous names involving alleations of hacking into his voicemail. I wonder what that could reveal?


So you'd be quite happy to have your private phone calls revealed to the world?


Eric, that is not what Mark said. He is only curious about the content and the outcome.

Advice: Calm down, read, listen, consider and then post Wink
_________________
-
John W
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Eric Shone



Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John W wrote:
Eric Shone wrote:
mark occomore wrote:
Andy Gray is apparently involved in a high court battle against the News Of The World along with other famous names involving alleations of hacking into his voicemail. I wonder what that could reveal?


So you'd be quite happy to have your private phone calls revealed to the world?


Eric, that is not what Mark said. He is only curious about the content and the outcome.

Advice: Calm down, read, listen, consider and then post Wink


We have no right to know the content, they're his private phone conversations. I've always thought we should treat others as we ourselves would like to be treated, and I have no interest in any information obtained by invading privacy. There is a difference between freedom of press and breaking privacy laws.

On topic, if I were Gray, I'd be finding out who leaked the recording and if it was one of those higher up, I'd be taking them to court.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
John W



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 3360
Location: Warwickshire, UK

PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eric Shone wrote:
We have no right to know the content, they're his private phone conversations.


That's academic Eric. All Mark is saying is it will be interesting if content is made known.

Eric Shone wrote:

On topic, if I were Gray, I'd be finding out who leaked the recording and if it was one of those higher up, I'd be taking them to court.


Well I hope you are not Gray, and I hope he wakes up the morining knowing that he is totally discredited as a broadcaster, makes public apologies, and changes his mind-set to be more respectful of other people who have qualified for the positions they hold within the sport of football, including referee's assistants irrespective of gender.

I wonder if he every privately uttered his sexist attitudes with regard to Gaby Logan presenting MOTD or Jacqui Oatley commentating a match for the BBC?
_________________
-
John W
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Eric Shone



Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John W wrote:
Eric Shone wrote:
We have no right to know the content, they're his private phone conversations.


That's academic Eric. All Mark is saying is it will be interesting if content is made known.

Eric Shone wrote:

On topic, if I were Gray, I'd be finding out who leaked the recording and if it was one of those higher up, I'd be taking them to court.


Well I hope you are not Gray, and I hope he wakes up the morining knowing that he is totally discredited as a broadcaster, makes public apologies, and changes his mind-set to be more respectful of other people who have qualified for the positions they hold within the sport of football, including referee's assistants irrespective of gender.

I wonder if he every privately uttered his sexist attitudes with regard to Gaby Logan presenting MOTD or Jacqui Oatley commentating a match for the BBC?


I'm pretty sure he'll be able to get a job as a commentator on another channel.

I think many men (and women) up and down the country will have sympathy with him for being demonized for having his private banter leaked to the world and it then being used as an excuse to sack him.

When I'm at work my front of shop and back of shop conversations are quite different. Both acceptable, but I consider my colleagues friends and as such will banter with them. But I wouldn't do so in front of customers (on-air) and I gather he didn't either. I'm sure many people are the same as me!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
mark occomore



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 9955
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'am not saying Andy Gray or anyone should have there private phone calls listened too. It's also interesting to hear that Sky were trying to push him out anyway.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eric I don't think Mr Gray would have any legal grounds for taking action against whoever allegedly leaked the extra information

They would argue their actions were in the public interest and the fact is that they WERE given the outcry over this incident

I would imagine Gray and Keys have rubbed up a fair number of people in Sky Sports the wrong way - perhaps an unfortunate expression in their case Shocked
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John W



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 3360
Location: Warwickshire, UK

PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eric Shone wrote:
When I'm at work my front of shop and back of shop conversations are quite different. Both acceptable, but I consider my colleagues friends and as such will banter with them. But I wouldn't do so in front of customers (on-air) and I gather he didn't either. I'm sure many people are the same as me!


Clearly you are in a different industry Eric. Broadcasting and Sport have certain requirements, as I say he was working in Sky's time, with Sky personnel and Sky equipment, it wasn't 'private' if the equipment was on.

I used to work in the Automotive industry as a supplier to the global companies, and if I had said to a colleague, and been overheard saying, that I did not want to work with a Toyota manager because she was a woman, or because she was Japanese, whatever, I would have been disciplined.
_________________
-
John W
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Rachel
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After reading yahoo news on this subject- I read the comments left by other readers...

I quite like this one....

"30.The news that Andy Gray had been sacked from Sky Sports­ just came up on the TV, my wife was going on about how­ he deserves to be sacked from Sky Sports. I told her it­ was just a joke that has been blown out of proportion­ and that it was over the top to sack him. She insisted­ that it was fair to sack him and I should look at it­ from a women's point of view,

So I unplugged the­ TV, took it into the kitchen and watched it there.

"
Back to top
ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester

PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just been listening to Mark Goodier on Smooth and he's playing a well known track from 1973 by Andy Kim but when he announced it he described it as 'Andy Gray' 'Sack Me Gently'

He later talked about the Comedy Awards and mentioned that he'd heard there were a couple of spare tickets available for the Sky Sports table

Obviously a man with a very topical sense of humour Smile
_________________
Are you ready for a Ruddles?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Eric Shone



Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rachel wrote:
After reading yahoo news on this subject- I read the comments left by other readers...

I quite like this one....

"30.The news that Andy Gray had been sacked from Sky Sports­ just came up on the TV, my wife was going on about how­ he deserves to be sacked from Sky Sports. I told her it­ was just a joke that has been blown out of proportion­ and that it was over the top to sack him. She insisted­ that it was fair to sack him and I should look at it­ from a women's point of view,

So I unplugged the­ TV, took it into the kitchen and watched it there.

"


Love it!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    R2OK! Forum Index -> The Sports Bar All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group. Hosted by phpBB.BizHat.com