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mark occomore
Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:01 pm Post subject: Gray and Keys Sexism Row |
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Quote: | Sky Sports presenters Andy Gray and Richard Keys were at the centre of a sexism row last night after they questioned whether a female linesman knew the offside rule during a Premier League football match.
The commentators, who apparently believed their microphones were switched off, were recorded making disparaging remarks about Sian Massey, 25, before Liverpool’s Premiership clash with Wolves yesterday.
They also criticised Apprentice star and West Ham vice-chairman Karren Brady who had yesterday written about sexism in a newspaper column.
Commenting on Ms Massey, Mr Keys said: ‘Somebody better get down there and explain offside to her.’
Mr Gray, a former Scottish international footballer, replied: ‘Can you believe that? A female linesman. Women don’t know the offside rule.’
Mr Keys replied: ‘Course they don’t. I can guarantee you there will be a big one today. Kenny (Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish) will go potty. This isn’t the first time, is it? Didn’t we have one before?’
Assistant referee Sian Massey
The Sky presenters made disparaging remarks about assistant referee Sian Massey
Later in the exchange, Mr Keys said: ‘The game’s gone mad. Did you hear charming Karren Brady this morning complaining about sexism? Do me a favour, love.’
Ms Brady had said she had ‘experienced sexism at its rankest, lies about my personal life and a level of calculated mischief that is simply appalling’.
Asked about the pundits’ remarks, she said: ‘I think this just sums up everything I said in my column.’
During the game, which Liverpool won 3-0, Ms Massey angered Wolves by refusing to rule Raul Meireles offside before he set up Liverpool’s first goal. The replay showed that she made the correct decision.
When The Mail on Sunday put the transcript to Mr Keys, he said: ‘I have no recollection of that. I have no idea what you are talking about.
'My recollection is that I wished the young lady all the best.’
When told a recording existed of the conversation, he said: ‘If you have a tape then you don’t need me to talk to you.’
Last night The Mail on Sunday sent a transcript and a copy of the recording to a Sky Sports spokeswoman.
She was not able to confirm or deny the veracity of the clip, which was provided to this newspaper by an anonymous source.
Mr Gray could not be reached last night. |
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1349729/Sky-Sports-presenters-sexist-diatribe-female-linesman-Apprentice-star-Karren-Brady.html |
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Schizoidman
Joined: 20 Sep 2010 Posts: 1140 Location: Rural West Sussex
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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I saw the goal and it was clearly a correct decision by the lady, who seems to know the offside rule more than the two morons concerned.
I don't suppose these two cretins will apologise.
At least they've been dropped from tonight's commentary.
Sadly players, managers, directors, commentators and fans are still living in the past. |
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ruddlescat
Joined: 16 Sep 2010 Posts: 18010 Location: Near Chester
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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I've always been very impressed with the performance of female officials when I've seen them involved in matches and I think there should be more in the Premier League
As people here may know I'm also a keen fan of Rugby League and there is an excellent lady who now regularly does video refereeing and is probably better than most of her male colleagues
And then there's Michaela the snooker referee who has proved herself capable at the highest level
Just because some women don't like sport is no reason for men to be prejudiced against those who do _________________ Are you ready for a Ruddles? |
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tiny51
Joined: 28 Jan 2009 Posts: 915
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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These remarks are akin to what Big Ron said a few years ago, he lost his job. Dont suppose these 2 will.
And what about that player who posted the pic of a ref in utd shirt.
If managers said this the book would be thrown at them, but as these 2 are not anything to do with football just a couple of commentators they are above the laws which govern the game they represent. |
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ruddlescat
Joined: 16 Sep 2010 Posts: 18010 Location: Near Chester
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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I think Andy Gray as a former Wolves and Everton player is biased against Liverpool anyway as I've noticed this before
Well done to Ms Massey for getting it right
Judging from the general appauling standard of Premier League refereeing I'd like to see her in charge of matches
She can't be any worse than what we have now _________________ Are you ready for a Ruddles? |
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littlepieces
Joined: 10 Jan 2010 Posts: 1098 Location: Lowestoft
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Andy Grey has always been full of himself and Keys acts like his little puppy.What they said was stupid and petty _________________ I found out how you can hurt an insect.It's the bees knees |
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Schizoidman
Joined: 20 Sep 2010 Posts: 1140 Location: Rural West Sussex
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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Ruddles: if you think the standard of Premiership refereeing is bad, you should try lower down the leagues!
Having said that, they always get criticised for mistakes and never praised for their correct decisions. What really annoys me is when the 'experts' in the studio, and managers, never apologise for getting it wrong. |
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ruddlescat
Joined: 16 Sep 2010 Posts: 18010 Location: Near Chester
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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I think the general standard of Championship referees is a great deal better than in the Premier League
I can't really comment on Leagues 1 and 2 as I only go to the occasional Shrewsbury game if they're playing a reasonable team
I think Messrs Keyes and Gray are skating on very thin ice though because most of the female presenters on Sky Sports are quite knowledgeable and could probably hold their own against either of those two idiots
I'd much rather watch football on the BBC where it belongs but sadly Sky are now able to monopolise coverage in a way which has proved bad for the game which has now come down to a battle of bank balances rather than a battle of tactics and football skills as it should be _________________ Are you ready for a Ruddles? |
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becky sharp
Joined: 01 Dec 2008 Posts: 6851
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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After actually hearing what they said rather than reading it there is no mistake as to how they meant it ..they couldn't have been more derisory if they had tried ...."unreconstructed old fashioned old blokes" was just one of the terms I heard them called today and they fully deserve that and much more. |
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John W
Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 3367 Location: Warwickshire, UK
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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Those guys need to think what they have said, and get on the Sky News and apologise. Have either of them ever refereed a game?
I've mentioned elsewhere on this part of the forum that I witnessed Amy Fearn becoming the first woman referee ever to take charge of a league game, between Coventry and Nottingham Forest in Feb 2010. The original ref suffered an injury and an on-pitch meeting of the other officials elected that she take charge, and what a great decision.
She was flawless, and it was amusing seeing the respect that the players gave her decisions, no f-ing and blinding at HER! _________________ -
John W |
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becky sharp
Joined: 01 Dec 2008 Posts: 6851
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Eric Shone
Joined: 06 Sep 2010 Posts: 63
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:44 am Post subject: |
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Edited highlights for sure.
Anyways I don't watch football and I could make a stab at explaining the off-side rule, but I just think this has been blown out of proportion. It was a joke - and a reasonably funny one at that. Take a joke people! |
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ruddlescat
Joined: 16 Sep 2010 Posts: 18010 Location: Near Chester
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:58 am Post subject: |
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If it was a joke Eric why could they not have said it on air?
The fact is it was a blatently sexist conversation between two men both of whom are full of themselves with giant egos and who in my opinion should have been sacked immediately
It has taken many years to get to the point where English football has mainly been rid of its racist attitudes and the last thing we need is for these to be replaced by sexist attitudes
I enjoyed the match on Sky last night without these two overpaid idiots and I don't want to see them back
There are plenty of other people who can do the job equally well so why stick with people who have proved themselves to be a liability _________________ Are you ready for a Ruddles? |
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Rachel Guest
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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I’m not too worried about what they said, really. We all know that this sort of thing is said up and down the land in pubs every night of the week. Who cares? Boys will be boys. We all know that a lot of men think that way. Men get a rough deal really- is there nowhere left for them to be what they are? If Clarkson had said it- no one would care. It’s only because it was on Sky that we even heard about it on the BBC. Funny that. |
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undiscovered
Joined: 15 Sep 2010 Posts: 650 Location: Peterborough
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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Eric Shone wrote: | Edited highlights for sure.
Anyways I don't watch football and I could make a stab at explaining the off-side rule, but I just think this has been blown out of proportion. It was a joke - and a reasonably funny one at that. Take a joke people! |
You can say many things about this incident like it didn't go out live, or it wasn't meant to be heard etc etc but no way can you say that what they said was a joke, they both got into similar trouble during the ladies world cup for opening gob before engaging brain.
It will used an excuse to get rid of the old guard at sky, which to be fair isn't great coverage, although not really a surprise as it only seems to be Jeremy HUnt who thinks Sky is good for British consumers _________________ You will hear gospel and rhythm and blues and jazz, all those are just labels, we know that music is music. |
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littlepieces
Joined: 10 Jan 2010 Posts: 1098 Location: Lowestoft
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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Gray has been sacked.He was on 1.7 million a year(mind you that is according to the daily mail)
Sky have now shown more footage of him being sexist and there is a clip of him on you tube so it's not even an isolated incident _________________ I found out how you can hurt an insect.It's the bees knees |
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mark occomore
Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah! The face of Sky Sports and once a great footballer and his TV career is over for the time being. Seems it went to far just like Russell Brand and Jonathan Ross did on Radio 2. |
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Eric Shone
Joined: 06 Sep 2010 Posts: 63
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, I can't actually find any videos so if someone has a link please link me, but I still think that political correctness has gone mad. |
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John W
Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 3367 Location: Warwickshire, UK
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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Yes he's gone and good riddance. I just hope he is man enough to not even think of the unfair dismissal action.
He was speaking off-air, but he was on duty for Sky, and brought the company and the sport and broadcasting industry in general into disrepute. _________________ -
John W |
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mark occomore
Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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Andy Gray is apparently involved in a high court battle against the News Of The World along with other famous names involving alleations of hacking into his voicemail. I wonder what that could reveal? |
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Eric Shone
Joined: 06 Sep 2010 Posts: 63
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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mark occomore wrote: | Andy Gray is apparently involved in a high court battle against the News Of The World along with other famous names involving alleations of hacking into his voicemail. I wonder what that could reveal? |
So you'd be quite happy to have your private phone calls revealed to the world? I very much doubt that. Under no circumstances should the media be allowed to invade peoples privacy in such a way. But I'm sure you're quite happy with the "if you've nothing to hide then you've nothing to fear" idea. |
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John W
Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 3367 Location: Warwickshire, UK
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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Eric Shone wrote: | mark occomore wrote: | Andy Gray is apparently involved in a high court battle against the News Of The World along with other famous names involving alleations of hacking into his voicemail. I wonder what that could reveal? |
So you'd be quite happy to have your private phone calls revealed to the world? |
Eric, that is not what Mark said. He is only curious about the content and the outcome.
Advice: Calm down, read, listen, consider and then post _________________ -
John W |
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Eric Shone
Joined: 06 Sep 2010 Posts: 63
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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John W wrote: | Eric Shone wrote: | mark occomore wrote: | Andy Gray is apparently involved in a high court battle against the News Of The World along with other famous names involving alleations of hacking into his voicemail. I wonder what that could reveal? |
So you'd be quite happy to have your private phone calls revealed to the world? |
Eric, that is not what Mark said. He is only curious about the content and the outcome.
Advice: Calm down, read, listen, consider and then post |
We have no right to know the content, they're his private phone conversations. I've always thought we should treat others as we ourselves would like to be treated, and I have no interest in any information obtained by invading privacy. There is a difference between freedom of press and breaking privacy laws.
On topic, if I were Gray, I'd be finding out who leaked the recording and if it was one of those higher up, I'd be taking them to court. |
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John W
Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 3367 Location: Warwickshire, UK
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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Eric Shone wrote: | We have no right to know the content, they're his private phone conversations. |
That's academic Eric. All Mark is saying is it will be interesting if content is made known.
Eric Shone wrote: |
On topic, if I were Gray, I'd be finding out who leaked the recording and if it was one of those higher up, I'd be taking them to court. |
Well I hope you are not Gray, and I hope he wakes up the morining knowing that he is totally discredited as a broadcaster, makes public apologies, and changes his mind-set to be more respectful of other people who have qualified for the positions they hold within the sport of football, including referee's assistants irrespective of gender.
I wonder if he every privately uttered his sexist attitudes with regard to Gaby Logan presenting MOTD or Jacqui Oatley commentating a match for the BBC? _________________ -
John W |
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Eric Shone
Joined: 06 Sep 2010 Posts: 63
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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John W wrote: | Eric Shone wrote: | We have no right to know the content, they're his private phone conversations. |
That's academic Eric. All Mark is saying is it will be interesting if content is made known.
Eric Shone wrote: |
On topic, if I were Gray, I'd be finding out who leaked the recording and if it was one of those higher up, I'd be taking them to court. |
Well I hope you are not Gray, and I hope he wakes up the morining knowing that he is totally discredited as a broadcaster, makes public apologies, and changes his mind-set to be more respectful of other people who have qualified for the positions they hold within the sport of football, including referee's assistants irrespective of gender.
I wonder if he every privately uttered his sexist attitudes with regard to Gaby Logan presenting MOTD or Jacqui Oatley commentating a match for the BBC? |
I'm pretty sure he'll be able to get a job as a commentator on another channel.
I think many men (and women) up and down the country will have sympathy with him for being demonized for having his private banter leaked to the world and it then being used as an excuse to sack him.
When I'm at work my front of shop and back of shop conversations are quite different. Both acceptable, but I consider my colleagues friends and as such will banter with them. But I wouldn't do so in front of customers (on-air) and I gather he didn't either. I'm sure many people are the same as me! |
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mark occomore
Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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I'am not saying Andy Gray or anyone should have there private phone calls listened too. It's also interesting to hear that Sky were trying to push him out anyway. |
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ruddlescat
Joined: 16 Sep 2010 Posts: 18010 Location: Near Chester
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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Eric I don't think Mr Gray would have any legal grounds for taking action against whoever allegedly leaked the extra information
They would argue their actions were in the public interest and the fact is that they WERE given the outcry over this incident
I would imagine Gray and Keys have rubbed up a fair number of people in Sky Sports the wrong way - perhaps an unfortunate expression in their case _________________ Are you ready for a Ruddles? |
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John W
Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 3367 Location: Warwickshire, UK
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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Eric Shone wrote: | When I'm at work my front of shop and back of shop conversations are quite different. Both acceptable, but I consider my colleagues friends and as such will banter with them. But I wouldn't do so in front of customers (on-air) and I gather he didn't either. I'm sure many people are the same as me! |
Clearly you are in a different industry Eric. Broadcasting and Sport have certain requirements, as I say he was working in Sky's time, with Sky personnel and Sky equipment, it wasn't 'private' if the equipment was on.
I used to work in the Automotive industry as a supplier to the global companies, and if I had said to a colleague, and been overheard saying, that I did not want to work with a Toyota manager because she was a woman, or because she was Japanese, whatever, I would have been disciplined. _________________ -
John W |
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Rachel Guest
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Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:25 am Post subject: |
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After reading yahoo news on this subject- I read the comments left by other readers...
I quite like this one....
"30.The news that Andy Gray had been sacked from Sky Sports just came up on the TV, my wife was going on about how he deserves to be sacked from Sky Sports. I told her it was just a joke that has been blown out of proportion and that it was over the top to sack him. She insisted that it was fair to sack him and I should look at it from a women's point of view,
So I unplugged the TV, took it into the kitchen and watched it there.
" |
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ruddlescat
Joined: 16 Sep 2010 Posts: 18010 Location: Near Chester
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Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:18 am Post subject: |
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I've just been listening to Mark Goodier on Smooth and he's playing a well known track from 1973 by Andy Kim but when he announced it he described it as 'Andy Gray' 'Sack Me Gently'
He later talked about the Comedy Awards and mentioned that he'd heard there were a couple of spare tickets available for the Sky Sports table
Obviously a man with a very topical sense of humour _________________ Are you ready for a Ruddles? |
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Eric Shone
Joined: 06 Sep 2010 Posts: 63
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Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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Rachel wrote: | After reading yahoo news on this subject- I read the comments left by other readers...
I quite like this one....
"30.The news that Andy Gray had been sacked from Sky Sports just came up on the TV, my wife was going on about how he deserves to be sacked from Sky Sports. I told her it was just a joke that has been blown out of proportion and that it was over the top to sack him. She insisted that it was fair to sack him and I should look at it from a women's point of view,
So I unplugged the TV, took it into the kitchen and watched it there.
" |
Love it! |
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