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Colin
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
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 Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| mark occomore wrote: | | Don't need another retrial as he's been found not guilty. |
Not completely true. The jury couldn't arrive at a definitive verdict on two charges, so the judge has referred them back to the CPS for "further consideration". Which means "Decide for yourselves whether you wish to bring a new case to court in each instance". |
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becky sharp
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Colin wrote: | | mark occomore wrote: | | Don't need another retrial as he's been found not guilty. |
Not completely true. The jury couldn't arrive at a definitive verdict on two charges, so the judge has referred them back to the CPS for "further consideration". Which means "Decide for yourselves whether you wish to bring a new case to court in each instance". |
The Crown Prosecution Service have said today that DLT is to face a re-trial on charges of indecent and sexual assault.
The outstanding charges relate to an allegation of indecent assault against a woman in the early 1990s along with an alleged sexual assault on a journalist in 2008.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26322552 |
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Fog on the Tyne
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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Do they not have to produce some new evidence to take it back to trial?
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ruddlescat
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Fog on the Tyne wrote: | | Do they not have to produce some new evidence to take it back to trial? |
Sadly no they don't - a retrial is always a possibility in cases where a jury fails to agree on a verdict on any given charge but having said that at least half of such cases do not result in any retrial so I personally feel that DLT is very unfortunate to have to endure this further stress - it seems that it's open season on former BBC presenters - or this particular one anyway 
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Colin
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Obviously I have no idea as to his guilt with respect to any charges that are to be brought against him, but I do feel for the guy! |
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becky sharp
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| ruddlescat wrote: | | Fog on the Tyne wrote: | | Do they not have to produce some new evidence to take it back to trial? |
Sadly no they don't - a retrial is always a possibility in cases where a jury fails to agree on a verdict on any given charge but having said that at least half of such cases do not result in any retrial so I personally feel that DLT is very unfortunate to have to endure this further stress - it seems that it's open season on former BBC presenters - or this particular one anyway |
When that happens,ruddles, is the slate wiped clean or do they stay on file? (if that's the correct thing to say )  |
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ruddlescat
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| becky sharp wrote: | | ruddlescat wrote: | | Fog on the Tyne wrote: | | Do they not have to produce some new evidence to take it back to trial? |
Sadly no they don't - a retrial is always a possibility in cases where a jury fails to agree on a verdict on any given charge but having said that at least half of such cases do not result in any retrial so I personally feel that DLT is very unfortunate to have to endure this further stress - it seems that it's open season on former BBC presenters - or this particular one anyway |
When that happens,ruddles, is the slate wiped clean or do they stay on file? (if that's the correct thing to say ) |
Well Becky in theory the situation is that in such cases the slate should be wiped clean as there has been no conviction and so for example it should not show up on any kind of criminal records check
However I have personal experience of many 'mistakes' happening in such cases where in my view deliberate action has been taken so as to ensure that the persons concerned continue to have problems
Twenty five years ago I used to believe in the well established concept of 'British Democracy' - but since then events of which I have personal knowledge and /or experience have taught me that if the authorities have an agenda against a particular person then they will stop at nothing to pursue their agenda by every means possible - and it's virtually impossible for the truth to ever come out - many of these kinds of problems happened when one Mr Blair was PM which is the main reason why I will never ever vote Labour 
Most British people have decent moral standards but sadly the same cannot be said of our political masters 
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Colin
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| ruddlescat wrote: | | many of these kinds of problems happened when one Mr Blair was PM which is the main reason why I will never ever vote Labour |
I would if the party's true membership rejected the Blairite idealogy and returned to their political roots as the "Party of Labour". Sadly, I don't think that'll happen anytime soon. Big Brother has us all by the goolies. |
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ruddlescat
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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Although I'm naturally conservative I really do agree with you Colin
Coming from a Labour stronghold like St Helens I had a lot more respect for 'Old Labour'- even if only from childhood memories - than I ever will have for Blair and his cronies
Politics should be about belief morals and decency and should not simply be a career path to a great meal ticket which is what we have these days in the case of all main parties
I'm sorry if I sound really cynical in many of my posts but the fact is I just don't like the country I was born in any more - it's fast becoming like a corrupt African dictatorship
Sorry I know we've got considerably off topic here but I really do feel that DLT is the subject of a 'flavour of the month' establishment stitch up
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becky sharp
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| ruddlescat wrote: |
Well Becky in theory the situation is that in such cases the slate should be wiped clean as there has been no conviction and so for example it should not show up on any kind of criminal records check
However I have personal experience of many 'mistakes' happening in such cases where in my view deliberate action has been taken so as to ensure that the persons concerned continue to have problems
( |
Thanks for that,ruddles. |
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mark occomore
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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The nightmare continues for DLT. I do think some women he allegedly he indecently assaulted are "fantasists and opportunists". The CPS and Police need to see this.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26787306 |
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Colin
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| mark occomore wrote: | | The nightmare continues for DLT. I do think some women he allegedly he indecently assaulted are "fantasists and opportunists". The CPS and Police need to see this. |
I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion, Mark, given that you're not privy to the facts - and considering also that the jury could not come to a definite verdict after the original case was heard in court. |
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ruddlescat
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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Obviously nobody can be sure of the position without hearing the evidence but it does seem to me that the powers that be definitely have it in for this poor man - and I mean 'poor' in every sense of the word
If the authorities decide they don't like someone they can effectively drive them to bankruptcy by wasting public money in bringing totally pointless and often very spurious legal proceedings
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mark occomore
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mark occomore
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| If he's cleared will Alison Saunders, head of the CPS, still claim it's 'in the public interest' whilst the public purse funds it? |
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Colin
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| mark occomore wrote: | | If he's cleared will Alison Saunders, head of the CPS, still claim it's 'in the public interest' whilst the public purse funds it? |
Good point. I shall ruminate over that one, Mark! |
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unclebuck
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:25 am Post subject: |
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It seems to me that the 'public interest' test ceased to be a criterion quite some time ago.
This has more of the characteristics of a vendetta..... we just keep going until we get him for something, and in the meantime we make his life hell. |
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oldraver
Joined: 18 Dec 2006
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mark occomore
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| DLT was convicted of indecent assault. He apparently approached the women who was working as a researcher on the Mrs Merton show and whilst she was smoking he approached her and put his hands on her chest for 15 / 20 seconds and she ran off. |
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ruddlescat
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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It's quite ridiculous that there should be even any hint of a prison sentence for a man who touched up a woman for a few seconds when there are scores of men in Rotherham and probably lots of other places who have repeatedly abused thousands of under age girls over very long periods of time and all are still free and at large
Has this country gone completely mad?
If every man who grabbed a woman's boobs ended up in prison then the prison population would probably run into hundreds of thousands - it happens every weekend when some people have drunk to excess and as a result simply lose control
I'm not saying that it's right but really - lets get this whole thing into perspective - and why has it taken almost 20 years for the woman concerned to decide that the incident upset her - surely she would have worked that out a long time ago
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Schizoidman
Joined: 20 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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I agree totally Ruddles. It would be disgraceful if he is imprisoned. But we live in a politically correct world.
Having said that, I still hope he is punished, perhaps a huge fine or community service. What he allegedly did was not nice. |
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ruddlescat
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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Yes Schiz - I think some kind of community sentence would be appropriate in this case
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Helen May
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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I agree Ruddles. There was a woman on JV who was a record promoter in the 70s and she said it was totally ridiculous as that was how the industry was back then, if anyone did something like that you gave them what for and that was it. She said times had changed. They also had a reporter from the Sunday Times who took offense at DLT's touching her when she interviewed him.
I almost felt like phoning in and said that it was a good job she (the ST reporter) didn't work in the airline industry, there were some flight deck crew who you kept well away from if you get my drift LOL!
H
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John W
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| ruddlescat wrote: |
why has it taken almost 20 years for the woman concerned to decide that the incident upset her - surely she would have worked that out a long time ago |
I did hear on TV that the woman reported the incident at the time, to a BBC producer whose response was 'I don't know what to do about it...'
But that same producer was in court last week as a witness to support the woman's claim.
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ruddlescat
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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I recently reread Johnnie Walker's autobiography and in it he quite openly talks about young girls being shipped out to the pirate boats and whilst he isn't explicit about what went on I think any intelligent person can read between the lines
It begs the question as to why the long arm of the law hasn't taken any interest in his previous history given the details disclosed?
Now of course it could be because he's now an established Radio 2 presenter - but wearing my lawyers hat I think it's far more likely that the authorities haven't pursued any possible action because either nobody has complained or more likely because the pirate ships were moored in international waters outside British juristiction so there could be no prosecution under British law if any offences had been committed
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becky sharp
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| John W wrote: | | ruddlescat wrote: |
why has it taken almost 20 years for the woman concerned to decide that the incident upset her - surely she would have worked that out a long time ago |
I did hear on TV that the woman reported the incident at the time, to a BBC producer whose response was 'I don't know what to do about it...'
But that same producer was in court last week as a witness to support the woman's claim. |
Along with Dave Gorman, the comedian.....they both told the jury they remembered her claims clearly.
Mr Gorman said: 'My recollection is that everyone in that team would have know about this, this was sort of office gossip to some extent.
'I was aware that she had reported it to Peter who was the producer,' he said.
'My feeling is if you look back to that time that the idea that you would call the police and say Dave Lee Travis grabbed her t**ts would not have gone anywhere.
'There was discussion and there were questions about whether it had been a sort of 'Carry-on' film 'Wahey!' which might be playful albeit ill-judged or whether it was aggressive, and my recollection is that it was aggressive.'
Mr Gorman worked as writer on the show for the first three series and remembered Travis appearing as a guest.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/dave-lee-travis-trial-veteran-4281827
(BTW the BBC producer's response was,in my view, pathetic.) |
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mark occomore
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| He's l think 69 now. He's lost everything his career, sold his house and reputation in taters. I doubt he'll ever work again. We will only remember him by his achieves. I just hope his wife stands by him. |
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nod
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| ruddlescat wrote: | I recently reread Johnnie Walker's autobiography and in it he quite openly talks about young girls being shipped out to the pirate boats and whilst he isn't explicit about what went on I think any intelligent person can read between the lines
It begs the question as to why the long arm of the law hasn't taken any interest in his previous history given the details disclosed?
Now of course it could be because he's now an established Radio 2 presenter - but wearing my lawyers hat I think it's far more likely that the authorities haven't pursued any possible action because either nobody has complained or more likely because the pirate ships were moored in international waters outside British juristiction so there could be no prosecution under British law if any offences had been committed |
"...likely that the authorities haven't pursued any possible action because either nobody has complained... "
Whenever this is said I also wonder what happens in a murder case where there is no one to complain |
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Ian Robinson
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| becky sharp wrote: | | John W wrote: | | ruddlescat wrote: |
why has it taken almost 20 years for the woman concerned to decide that the incident upset her - surely she would have worked that out a long time ago |
I did hear on TV that the woman reported the incident at the time, to a BBC producer whose response was 'I don't know what to do about it...'
But that same producer was in court last week as a witness to support the woman's claim. |
Along with Dave Gorman, the comedian.....they both told the jury they remembered her claims clearly.
Mr Gorman said: 'My recollection is that everyone in that team would have know about this, this was sort of office gossip to some extent.
'I was aware that she had reported it to Peter who was the producer,' he said.
'My feeling is if you look back to that time that the idea that you would call the police and say Dave Lee Travis grabbed her t**ts would not have gone anywhere.
'There was discussion and there were questions about whether it had been a sort of 'Carry-on' film 'Wahey!' which might be playful albeit ill-judged or whether it was aggressive, and my recollection is that it was aggressive.'
Mr Gorman worked as writer on the show for the first three series and remembered Travis appearing as a guest.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/dave-lee-travis-trial-veteran-4281827
(BTW the BBC producer's response was,in my view, pathetic.) |
Curiously, the lady in question has probably appeared on Radio 2 more times than DLT in the time since - she even had her own show on the network at one point! |
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unclebuck
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:46 am Post subject: |
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This 'victim' has apparently been incorporating an account of the 'assault' by DLT into her stand-up comedy routine for quite some time, although in the recent legal proceedings, she has somewhat incongruously decided that it might be better to be anonymous..... this speaks volumes.
The upshot is that for 10 seconds of breast-touching 20 years ago, DLT has endured a couple of years of sheer hell, and has lost his house, his career, and his reputation... has pretty much had his life destroyed..... and finally is given a 3 month suspended sentence.
Justice? She must be very proud.
I have also dramatically reappraised my view of Dave Gorman, for his contribution to the lynch-mob.
There are times when this country is a very depressing place to live. |
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mark occomore
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:57 am Post subject: |
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| unclebuck wrote: | This 'victim' has apparently been incorporating an account of the 'assault' by DLT into her stand-up comedy routine for quite some time, although in the recent legal proceedings, she has somewhat incongruously decided that it might be better to be anonymous..... this speaks volumes.
The upshot is that for 10 seconds of breast-touching 20 years ago, DLT has endured a couple of years of sheer hell, and has lost his house, his career, and his reputation... has pretty much had his life destroyed..... and finally is given a 3 month suspended sentence.
Justice? She must be very proud.
I have also dramatically reappraised my view of Dave Gorman, for his contribution to the lynch-mob.
There are times when this country is a very depressing place to live. |
That is true and probably she was upset when he did it. I don't condone what he did, but he has lost everything. I do think some women need to think hard when going to the police as proven in cases like this the judge, jury and even the police can see right through them. Not all women are lying and all cases need to be looked at. |
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ruddlescat
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:38 am Post subject: |
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DLT grabs a women's boobs for a few seconds nearly 20 years ago and ends up with a suspended prison sentence
Meanwhile in Rotherham and certain other places foreign men most of whom should have been deported abuse under age girls for years doing far worse things and they complained but nobody was interested and even now little is being done to address the problem
Double standards or what
I agree with you uncle - it seems to me that for most of the time in the current age this country is a very depressing place
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Helen May
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:21 am Post subject: |
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I agree with both Ruddles and uncle that you wonder who has got the right priority.
I'm probably the only one who doesn't know who the woman is, are we allowed to say who it is?
H
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I said it live on air in the studio with Jeremy Vine on 10/3/2005 |
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mark occomore
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| Obviously the females who went to the police hated him. Did they hate him cause of who he was and jealous what he had? I think some like DLT should be able to claim back there money, but unfortunately they can't so you lose everything. |
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FleetingEileenM
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Helen May wrote: | I agree with both Ruddles and uncle that you wonder who has got the right priority.
I'm probably the only one who doesn't know who the woman is, are we allowed to say who it is?
H |
Yes, I agree too. Helen, I have no idea who this woman is and in my opinion her name should be made public, especially if, as uncle buck said, she has been using the experience as part of her comedy routine . Why should her anonymity be protected? |
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Fog on the Tyne
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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I'm in the dark too H.
I also think it's wrong that the "accused" gets named before and during a trial as regardless of the verdict their name will always be tarred with the accusations
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unclebuck
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Helen May
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you uncle.
H
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Rob
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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The incident may have only lasted for a few seconds, but the impact of unwanted sexual contact can last a lifetime. To my mind it's right that the researcher made the original complaint and we know the evidence against DLT was strong enough to stand up in a court of law because he got convicted.
The eventual sentence was a suspended prison term, which may be about right. Whether the process of arriving at that outcome is fair is another matter, particularly when the legal fees for the defendant mount up the way that DLT's have.
The fact that the victim may have used the experience to earn money isn't relevant; many people have made a living out of trauma in their lives but would still have preferred the trauma not to have happened.
Part of the risk you take when working in the public eye and you do something illegal is to your reputation. Some bounce back (Johnny Walker and Richard Bacon from drug problems, for example), others don't. DLT's offence didn't involve minors and if he were a younger man then he may well have found work again in a few years. He knew the risk he was taking, it's just a shame in every respect that it took so long for anything to be done about it.
Rob |
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becky sharp
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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Good post,Rob.  |
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