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Cherskiy
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
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Location: near Amble, Northumberland
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 Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:02 pm Post subject: RAF pilots asked if they would consider 'kamikaze' missions |
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6521311.stm
The Pprune website (also referred to in the above article) makes interesting reading on this subject:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=269938
It would be the first time in the service's 89 year history that a pilot would be ordered to fly such a mission.
(Incidentally, the Japanese were not the only air force to employ such a tactic - google 'Rammkommando Elbe' for a WW2 Luftwaffe unit that was formed in April 1945 to ram American bombers - a practical suicide mission in itself. They did fly a mission and got hacked down in droves without much success.)
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mark occomore
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 9955
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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I suppose you look at it in one way you are dying for your country? With the technology around these days there is no need too.
Last edited by mark occomore on Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ella Sailyour
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 579
Location: Marbella, Spain
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| mark occomore wrote: | | I suppose you look at it in one way you are dying for your country? With the technology around these days there is know need too. |
"know" need? What does that mean?
And you're missing the point. The story contained a reference to the only possible action left "if all else failed". That's the point. And "all the technology around" didn't stop the 9/11 attacks did it?
Ella
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John W
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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Location: Warwickshire, UK
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| mark occomore wrote: | | I suppose you look at it in one way you are dying for your country? With the technology around these days there is know need too. |
Marc,
Surely 9/11's success depended on suicide pilots, so surely the terrorist organisations feel there IS a need to do suicide missions. There's also about one every day in Iraq, not using a plane, but a motor vehicle. 
Yes? Or what did you mean Marc? 
John W |
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Cherskiy
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
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Location: near Amble, Northumberland
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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Serving RAF pilots have always understood the risks - a colleague at work lost her brother in a Jaguar crash near Bruggen in the 1980s so peacetime flying isn't without danger.
Self-sacrifice has always been left to the individual, though - there are many instances of such acts during wartime (often as a last resort or because of mortal wounds), but ordering someone to do so is taking it to a different level. Beforehand, it would have been left to the individual pilot to decide to bring down an airliner by ramming it as a last option - will he or she now be ordered to do so?
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Barkingbiker
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
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Location: Lincolnshire
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know what to say about this one, however, as I understand the situation, as reported on radio news today, it has been brought up as a point for discussion and not as a possible policy decision.
BB 
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Ella Sailyour
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 579
Location: Marbella, Spain
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Barkingbiker wrote: | I don't know what to say about this one, however, as I understand the situation, as reported on radio news today, it has been brought up as a point for discussion and not as a possible policy decision.
BB |
I'm sure that, in the context of this bloke's presentation to the conference, he merely posed the question as something for pilots to think about, and preceded his question with: "Here's something for you to consider......" etc. That's all.
I don't even know why it's become a news headline.
Ella
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gfloyd
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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Location: Here, There, Everywhere.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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Everyone who is NOT volunteering please take one step BACKWARDS. Pay attention Occomore!!
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AndyAndy2
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Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| Cherskiy wrote: | Serving RAF pilots have always understood the risks - a colleague at work lost her brother in a Jaguar crash near Bruggen in the 1980s so peacetime flying isn't without danger.
Self-sacrifice has always been left to the individual, though - there are many instances of such acts during wartime (often as a last resort or because of mortal wounds), but ordering someone to do so is taking it to a different level. Beforehand, it would have been left to the individual pilot to decide to bring down an airliner by ramming it as a last option - will he or she now be ordered to do so? |
Chersk, can't they just set the plane on course for whatever they want to knock out then eject?
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Cherskiy
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
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Location: near Amble, Northumberland
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:30 am Post subject: |
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They could, but the plane would invariably miss the target, especially if it was moving. Even smart bombs can miss their targets, so pointing your jet at something then banging out is a little inaccurate.....
You've been watching too many films! 
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AndyAndy2
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, probably. I just thought, what would I do if I was ordered to ram something....."You want me to what?!!! Er...sorry this is a bad line...hotdog, hotdog....(sounds of crumpling paper), etc" 
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Cherskiy
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like a Blackadder moment to me.... 
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Barkingbiker
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
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Location: Lincolnshire
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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When I was working on F4's, and we went to a NATO weapons competition, the American F4 groundcrew told me that in Vietnam, they were ordered to remove all the filaments from the Master Caution Panel as too many jocks were aborting their sorties on take off for minor system failure warnings. I don't doubt it was true, knowing the way the American military sometimes work.
BB
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