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mark occomore
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 9955
Location: UK
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 Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:35 am Post subject: Flight Delays |
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| Flight delays at on major airports have put a knock on effect on those who are trying to get away for the festive period. This is due to the fog. Watching the news this morning so many passengers are moaning, but I'am sure if they want a safe journey they should expect this? |
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gfloyd
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 4861
Location: Here, There, Everywhere.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Im not sure they should "expect it". Prolonged periods of fog in Britain are quite unusual. That said however there is not much that can be done about it.
It doesn't make it any easier though. My longest ever delay was about 8 hours at an airport (on 2 separate occassions). Its the most miserable experience imaginable, mainly due to lack of proper communication from the airlines about REALISTIC chances of when the flight will actually depart. They seem to feel it is better to say nothing than tell people the truth.
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Toggy tea slurper
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:59 am Post subject: |
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You have to feel for them, I hope they all get home in time.
There's nothing anyone can do about fog, it's nobody's fault. I understand the frustration but there's really no point in getting angry about it, it's not going to change anything. |
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John W
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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Location: Warwickshire, UK
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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I thought radar was invented in 1942.
Don't they USE IT?????  |
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Cherskiy
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 3701
Location: near Amble, Northumberland
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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Radar was invented a few years before that.... 1936, IIRC.
Landing is not the problem - most modern airliners have 'autoland' or equivalents for Cat.3 conditions such as thick fog. At LHR it's more a problem of them bumping into each other on the ground in the murk (TCAS, the collision avoidance system, doesn't really work well on the ground), so much so that they had to lengthen the separation times between incoming aircraft. That eats into the amount of arrival slots available and therefore less aircraft can land each day. BA thought it best to cancel the domestic and short-haul European arrivals in favour of their long-haul fleet.
LHR should do what the RAF did in the war and re-invent 'FIDO' - simply set alight huge channels of petrol alongside each runway, thus dispersing the fog.... would play havoc with the local environment, though.
There's also the problem of a hundred-and-one different ground vehicles driving around the parking ramps - here at Newcastle the post office and ground handling van drivers have been known to drive into wingtips, engine nacelles etc. even in completely fine and dry conditions! 
Cherskiy
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gfloyd
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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Location: Here, There, Everywhere.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Toggy tea slurper wrote: | You have to feel for them, I hope they all get home in time.
There's nothing anyone can do about fog, it's nobody's fault. I understand the frustration but there's really no point in getting angry about it, it's not going to change anything. |
Passengers get upset mainly because the airlines dont tell them anything. A little communication would go a long way.
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mark occomore
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Cherskiy wrote: | Radar was invented a few years before that.... 1936, IIRC.
Landing is not the problem - most modern airliners have 'autoland' or equivalents for Cat.3 conditions such as thick fog. At LHR it's more a problem of them bumping into each other on the ground in the murk (TCAS, the collision avoidance system, doesn't really work well on the ground), so much so that they had to lengthen the separation times between incoming aircraft. That eats into the amount of arrival slots available and therefore less aircraft can land each day. BA thought it best to cancel the domestic and short-haul European arrivals in favour of their long-haul fleet.
LHR should do what the RAF did in the war and re-invent 'FIDO' - simply set alight huge channels of petrol alongside each runway, thus dispersing the fog.... would play havoc with the local environment, though.
There's also the problem of a hundred-and-one different ground vehicles driving around the parking ramps - here at Newcastle the post office and ground handling van drivers have been known to drive into wingtips, engine nacelles etc. even in completely fine and dry conditions!
Cherskiy |
I gather it was something along those lines, but explained it some great detail, thankyou for this  |
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John W
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 3367
Location: Warwickshire, UK
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Cherskiy,
So it's on the ground that's the problem. I don't think I've heard any news reporters actually explain that. Thanks.
Transatlantic flights have not been affected, I think that puzzles people especially if the ground problems would be the same?
John W |
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mark occomore
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 9955
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| John W wrote: | Thanks Cherskiy,
So it's on the ground that's the problem. I don't think I've heard any news reporters actually explain that. Thanks.
Transatlantic flights have not been affected, I think that puzzles people especially if the ground problems would be the same?
John W |
No people are moaning for the sake of it and britain is becoming a moan country. If they actually sat back and thought 'well this maybe the problem it's not the ground staff who are checking me in fault', then it might be a smooth operation. I know people are fed up and want to get away for the festive breaks, but we can't help how the weather is. |
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Cherskiy
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 3701
Location: near Amble, Northumberland
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| mark occomore wrote: | | If they actually sat back and thought 'well this maybe the problem it's not the ground staff who are checking me in fault', then it might be a smooth operation. I know people are fed up and want to get away for the festive breaks, but we can't help how the weather is. |
Happy to oblige with the explanations since you say the news isn't!
Some BA staff were apparently closing their check-in desks at LHR's Terminal 1 last night to stop people clogging the building (and complaining to people who could do zip about the situation, no doubt). The hapless passengers were instead being 'processed' in makeshift tents in the car park outside.... I understand that domestic flights from LHR weren't listed as cancelled as BA would then have to pay out compensation, instead the airline was apparently suggesting that seats would possibly be available today or tomorrow (the busiest day of the year). Trouble is, today's and tomorrow's passengers are given higher priority to those stranded from yesterday....
The reason why domestic and short-haul European flights are being cancelled instead of long-haul is that there are alternatives (albeit limited ones in terms of numbers) to flying. Long-haul passengers don't have that luxury so the airlines are reluctant to cancel their flights and indeed won't unless it's absolutely necessary.
In previous years the wide-bodies have been stranded all over the UK on weather diversions (on one occasion Newcastle Airport had 50 diversions from LHR and LGW parked up on a taxi-way) and it takes forever to get planes, passengers and baggage back to where they should be - there's then a knock-on effect as the planes are out of position, the pilots are often 'out of hours' and it creates mayhem for up to a week afterwards. Seems this time BA has decided to pull the plug on its short-haul sectors to avoid hassle in the long run. No comfort to the passengers now affected, of course....
My mates in Newcastle Airport Air Traffic Control are having an unusually quiet time at the moment....
Cherskiy
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Ella Sailyour
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 579
Location: Marbella, Spain
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Cherskiy wrote: | | Radar was invented a few years before that.... 1936, IIRC. |
Yes, and that's largely the reason why the pre-WW2 government wanted the BBC to expand its TV service as a cover for the production of cathode ray tubes for the production of radar screens.
Ella
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