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Lessons Must Be Learnt Due to Flooding

 
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mark occomore



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:49 pm    Post subject: Lessons Must Be Learnt Due to Flooding Reply with quote

Lessons must be learned from the floods, Prime Minister Gordon Brown has said, after severe weather caused chaos across parts of England and Wales.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6910086.stm

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Thats a joke as it's up to the government to provide money for flood defences.
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firewirefred
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Lessons Must Be Learnt Due to Flooding Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
Thats a joke as it's up to the government to provide money for flood defences.


Technically it's the responsibility of local authorities, actually. Whichever way, it's "us" that have to cough up the dosh one way or another.
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John W



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Location: Warwickshire, UK

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Lessons Must Be Learnt Due to Flooding Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
Lessons must be learned from the floods, Prime Minister Gordon Brown has said, after severe weather caused chaos across parts of England and Wales.


A lot of people have learned a lesson.

Look, I knew it was going to rain a lot here in Warwickshire so I got myself prepared. I parked my car on high ground. I also dug a narrow channel from the back of the garden down to the patio where there's a drain. I now have a nice little stream down the left hand side of my garden and we're not flooding. Yeah Ok, the drain is good, we're half a mile from an Avon tributary and four miles from the Avon. But when I see all those submerged cars and higher ground a few yards away, well some didn't think did they? Confused
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Lessons Must Be Learnt Due to Flooding Reply with quote

firewirefred wrote:
mark occomore wrote:
Thats a joke as it's up to the government to provide money for flood defences.


Technically it's the responsibility of local authorities, actually. Whichever way, it's "us" that have to cough up the dosh one way or another.


Yes maybe correct, but it's down to the government to dish out the money to local authorties.

Also planning permission for flood defences has to pass the government too and a lot have been thrown out over the years too spend money on troop defence etc, etc..
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firewirefred
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Lessons Must Be Learnt Due to Flooding Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
Yes maybe correct, but it's down to the government to dish out the money to local authorties.


The commitment is normally 85% where local emergencies are concerned, but Brown has already guaranteed local authorities 100% compensation.

mark occomore wrote:
Also planning permission for flood defences has to pass the government too....


No it isn't. It's down to local authorities and, where approporiate, the Environment Agency.

mark occomore wrote:
and a lot have been thrown out over the years too spend money on troop defence etc, etc..


That's a completely different issue altogether - that's down to the Chancellor really, and is also a General Election issue, methinks.
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gfloyd



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fat chance any lessons will be learned. The real lesson is dont build on flood plains. But what do you do with all the houses already built on flood plains? Knock em down - hardly likely.
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Toggy tea slurper
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Lessons Must Be Learnt Due to Flooding Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
Lessons must be learned from the floods, Prime Minister Gordon Brown has said


Will one of those 'lessons' be not to build on flood plains?
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firewirefred
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or not to build streets with dips in them...... or villages at the foot of fields down which water rushes after a deluge (as it did near us recently)? The truth is that there's very little that Government, Local Authorities or the Environment Agency can do about future flood risk in many places. Mind you, building on what are obvious flood plains is just plain daft.
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These floods don't happen in the parts which have been hit all the time. Central government still need to help to prevent this happening all the time. I suppose you can't predict the weather months and years in advance, but where houses are built on flood plains insurance companies should understand and help, but it also will hit everyone with insurance over the years to help pay those effected.
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firewirefred
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
These floods don't happen in the parts which have been hit all the time. Central government still need to help to prevent this happening all the time.


But how can it when this doesn't "happen all the time"? How is it possible to predict where a flood is going to happen next or when? And what are the conditions on the land which precipitate it?
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

firewirefred wrote:
mark occomore wrote:
These floods don't happen in the parts which have been hit all the time. Central government still need to help to prevent this happening all the time.


But how can it when this doesn't "happen all the time"? How is it possible to predict where a flood is going to happen next or when? And what are the conditions on the land which precipitate it?



They are building houses next to flood plains and rivers, but the defences are not coping. I heard that local authorties in these areas ask for help towards these defences, but a lot of them are thrown out every year.

It's ok Brown saying he's monitoring the situation, but I'm sure if the water was creeping up to No 10 he would be quick to help.
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drinking water supplies have started to run out in some areas of England worst affected by the flooding.

Severn Trent Water says 150,000 homes are without water in Gloucestershire after a treatment works was flooded.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6910838.stm
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John W



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now, about these defences.....

I was flicking though a recent article in Natural World and I quote:

Quote:
Shrewsbury receives the combined run-off from the 965 sq. mile Severn and Vyrnwy catchments. Heavy rain led to floods in 1998 and 2000, and a narrow escape in 2004 ...... the Frankwell scheme kept back the 2004 flood with physical barriers but cost £3.5million and protected just 75 houses .......


So I can see it can never be worth protecting every flood plain resident Sad
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When the Thames Barrier was built is was supposed to only last 25 years as water levels were lower then.
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iwarburton



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone know if there's going to be an appeal for funds or whether any donations can be placed through an existing agency?

Ian.
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gfloyd



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John W wrote:
Now, about these defences.....

I was flicking though a recent article in Natural World and I quote:

Quote:
Shrewsbury receives the combined run-off from the 965 sq. mile Severn and Vyrnwy catchments. Heavy rain led to floods in 1998 and 2000, and a narrow escape in 2004 ...... the Frankwell scheme kept back the 2004 flood with physical barriers but cost £3.5million and protected just 75 houses .......


So I can see it can never be worth protecting every flood plain resident Sad



£3.5m for 75 houses. So 5m houses would cost billions. I dont see Gordon splashing the cash to do anything tangible.
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Behind Geddon's Wall



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is an appeal to help the victims of the floods in Hull and east yorkshire who have noticed that if any thing happens along the M4 corridor you get at least 4 BBC news presenters covering the story. When Hull and the east riding were flooded ( and lost of people are STILL short of somewhere to live) there was 1 local bod.

Golden Brown gets off his scottish backside and visits the area within 3 days. It was more than a week and after much yelling by Prescott before he managed to come up North. Webcameron made it only as far as Lincoln and Ming the merciless has finally woke up and is on his way. Could this be anything to do with the fact that the M4 is packed with marginal seats?
Mad Crying or Very sad
From Kingston Upon Hull - The Forgotten City
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Geddon

You simply mustn't blame yourself -- the days were perfect
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gfloyd



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Behind Geddon's Wall wrote:
Could this be anything to do with the fact that the M4 is packed with marginal seats?
Mad Crying or Very sad
From Kingston Upon Hull - The Forgotten City


Well the people of Hull should stop voting like sheep then!

And having News 24 presenters block up the last remaining dry land is not necessarily a blesing either

<tongueincheeksmiley>
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Behind Geddon's Wall



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gfloyd wrote:
Behind Geddon's Wall wrote:
Could this be anything to do with the fact that the M4 is packed with marginal seats?
Mad Crying or Very sad
From Kingston Upon Hull - The Forgotten City


Well the people of Hull should stop voting like sheep then!


<tongueincheeksmiley>


When webcomeron and ming the decrepit provide us with decent alternatives to the red rosette Punch and Judy show. Plus 20 Yards from me is a tory stronghold - where was their glorious leader?
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Geddon

You simply mustn't blame yourself -- the days were perfect
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Bound across the cinder causeway
From the furnace to the quarry
Through the fields of oil
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gfloyd



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Behind Geddon's Wall wrote:
When webcomeron and ming the decrepit provide us with decent alternatives to the red rosette Punch and Judy show. Plus 20 Yards from me is a tory stronghold - where was their glorious leader?


Well if you wont vote for a person just because you think that the over 60's are "decrepit" then I dont suppose we will ever move away from "Punch & Judy" politics.

You cant have it both ways you know.
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John W



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unbelievably on Sky News today about 7pm I saw a group of very happy canoeists on the Thames, thoroughly enjoying themselves. One of them said and this IS unbelieveable,

"if the river rises another six inches the river will be just perfect for canoeing and we can get over the next weir......"


Evil or Very Mad Shocked Confused Twisted Evil
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iwarburton



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If this had happened abroad there would have been an immediate national appeal by the Red Cross or similar for urgent aid.

Why hasn't it happened in this case?

Ian.
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John W



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iwarburton wrote:
If this had happened abroad there would have been an immediate national appeal by the Red Cross or similar for urgent aid.

Why hasn't it happened in this case?

Ian.


It HAS been set up and had £300k pledged in the first hour.
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Behind Geddon's Wall



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Typical!

The Severn/avon/ thames gets flooded and an emergency appeal is set up.

Yorkshire gets flooded and we have to look after ourselves!
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Geddon

You simply mustn't blame yourself -- the days were perfect
And so were exactly what I was born to spoil
For I am the Rider to the World's End
Bound across the cinder causeway
From the furnace to the quarry
Through the fields of oil
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nod



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gfloyd wrote:
Fat chance any lessons will be learned. The real lesson is dont build on flood plains....


and don't build flood defences that just send the unwanted water down stream to some other poor sod who has never had a flood problem until you built your flood defences Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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iwarburton



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for info re appeal. Over to me now!

I hope that the proceeds will be used for all affected areas, not just the more southern ones.

According to the Telegraph of a few days ago, this summer's weather is much like that of 1956, which was appalling right through July and August and then gave way to a brilliant Indian summer in September. So keep hoping!

Ian.
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nod



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would also suggest they design houses to cope with some water.
We used to live in a victorian house which has steps to get in the front and back doors and a gap under the floorjoists of about 2ft to ground level so if there had been any flooding this space could have coped with it.

Opposite to this is our daughter lives in a recently built house that was built in an area that locals say has flooded in the past. The house has no steps and no gap between floor joists and ground, and guess what it flooded to a depth of 6" which meant they had to move out for 6 months to allow the floor to be renewed, walls replastered, kitchen replaced. Now if the designer had had the foresight to raise the house a couple of feet Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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Behind Geddon's Wall



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm thinking of a 3ft moat and a drawbridge over the driveway
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Geddon

You simply mustn't blame yourself -- the days were perfect
And so were exactly what I was born to spoil
For I am the Rider to the World's End
Bound across the cinder causeway
From the furnace to the quarry
Through the fields of oil
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem which people don't understand is the water authorties needed to turn off the water as sewage was going into the system. They need to make sure the water is cleaned in the resvours and ready for the consumer. They can't clean the water up in the streets until it has dropped too. If they did put the water on there would be an outbreak of E Coli and Stomach upsets.

It's not the water what causes the damage it's the sewage and people need to wear protective clothing when clearing up.


Last edited by mark occomore on Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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firewirefred
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
The problem which people don't understand is the water authorties needed to turn off the water as sewage was going into the system. They need to make sure the water is cleaned in the resvours and ready for the consumer. They can't clean the water up in the streets until it has dropped too. If they did put the water on there would be an outbreak of Colira.

It's not the water what causes the damage it's the sewage and people need to wear protective clothing when clearing up.


Thank you. We should make sure all the victims of the flooding get the message.
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

firewirefred wrote:
mark occomore wrote:
The problem which people don't understand is the water authorties needed to turn off the water as sewage was going into the system. They need to make sure the water is cleaned in the resvours and ready for the consumer. They can't clean the water up in the streets until it has dropped too. If they did put the water on there would be an outbreak of Colira.

It's not the water what causes the damage it's the sewage and people need to wear protective clothing when clearing up.


Thank you. We should make sure all the victims of the flooding get the message.



We better do. You should go and help them. Sarcasm dosn't work with me.
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firewirefred
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
We better do. You should go and help them. Sarcasm dosn't work with me.


How do you know whether or not I have not been helping people who have been affected by flooding already? My neighbourhood might have been been affected by flooding - so you are making assumptions somewhat are you not?
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John W



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fred, if you were a community-minded poster you would have told us already about your adventures in your wellies and the donations you've made to the Red Cross Wink

Just checked the galvanised pail out the back (which I emptied yesterday) and I'd say the downpour this afternoon in Warwickshire produced about 25mm of rain, about 1 inch, and much of that should be making it's way through Evesham as we speak, and tomorrow Tewksbury.

The moat around my shed still happens but not so bad now as my trickling stream/ditch now takes much of it down to the patio and the drain. All the work I've put into that makes me wonder what a mess many folks' gardens will be in Tewksbury when the water dries up.
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Behind Geddon's Wall



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see that webcamron made it to Hull 5 weeks late! Did the huskies get lost or does his satnav finish at Lincoln?
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Geddon

You simply mustn't blame yourself -- the days were perfect
And so were exactly what I was born to spoil
For I am the Rider to the World's End
Bound across the cinder causeway
From the furnace to the quarry
Through the fields of oil
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gfloyd



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing that interests the Hull electorate is the price of fags and pints. I dont think Cameron is going to win them over.
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Behind Geddon's Wall



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

insightful as ever Rolling Eyes
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Geddon

You simply mustn't blame yourself -- the days were perfect
And so were exactly what I was born to spoil
For I am the Rider to the World's End
Bound across the cinder causeway
From the furnace to the quarry
Through the fields of oil
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