R2OK!

nod · Joined: 24 Dec 2006 Posts: 3558

They now want 70 mph imposed more strictly , switch off our air-con etc all to save the planet...

with speed , sorry safety cameras, that have made no difference to death rates around here but raised £1m last year (30,000 tickets !), calls to ban satnavs etc , why don't these do-gooders just call to ban the car all together ? Rolling Eyes

Behind Geddon's Wall · Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:15 am Post subject:

...because if they ban the car, they will have nothing else to whinge about. I can remember when the call to enforce the speed limits, not use air-con and all the other things were to save money, or save fuel. This is yet another 'green' stick to beat the motorist with.
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Geddon

You simply mustn't blame yourself -- the days were perfect
And so were exactly what I was born to spoil
For I am the Rider to the World's End
Bound across the cinder causeway
From the furnace to the quarry
Through the fields of oil

RockitRon · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 7646

It has been universally known for many years that travelling at speed and using the air-con is a big drain on fuel consumption. A car driven at 70mph uses 15-20% more fuel than one at 55 (which used to be the speed used in fuel economy figures for new car specs, and is also the national speed limit in the USA); air-con reduces fuel economy by another 10%.

Given the rising price and volatility of supply of oil and petrol the only surprise is that our nanny government has not tried to enforce some control on both already. But then they'd lose out in tax revenue.
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Ron

RockitRon · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 7646

And as regards speed cameras, there wouldn't be so many, and they wouldn't rake in as much in fines, if people observed the speed limits, whatever they may be.

I cannot know that disregard for speed limits is not purely a British habit, but it was very noticeable that, while on holiday in France earlier this year and strictly observing the 90/110/130kph limits, the only cars that overtook us were bearing UK registration plates (apart from one, which had a cop on a motorbike in hot pursuit!), and on our return, coming up the M20 through Kent at regulation 70, I soon lost count of the numbers streaming past on our right.
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Ron

idcowden · Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 67

Travelling in France is a great experience. A realistic speed limit on autoroutes of 80mph (130kmh) dry and 70mph (110khm) wet, means that very few overtake (in my experience it was belgians rather than brits) and tough enforcement of driving rules (I came across one middle lane driver in a whole week of driving).

Most people are aware that speeding in France just isn't worth it. Too many traffic gendarmes. I also like the principal of having one lane designated as the slow vehicle lane with seperate appropriate limits for lorries and caravans.

That said, there was a lot less traffic on the road than in the UK (probably due to using Toll Autoroutes).

If you want sensible driving you need sensible limits. The majority of motorway traffic goes at 80mph in normal conditions, with salesman and other sundry motoring a**holes travelling at 90+.

I have long thought that a system of flexible limits based on road conditions would be the most sensible way of managing driving. If its a clear 3 lane motorway with no traffic and good weather, where is the problem in having an upper limit of even 90mph? If it becomes busy, or the weather is bad, obviously it should slow down.

I might add that my shiny new renault grand scenic managed 45.6miles to the gallon with most of the driving being at 80mph with the air-con on. Not bad for a big car!

RockitRon · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 7646

Yes, good points. I'd forgotten about the much lower volume of traffic over there (even on the non-toll roads) - also the absence of road works and the generally much better condition of the roads (even country lanes).

On our more crowded, less well maintained roads I think the limits are high enough.

Flexible limits based on road conditions and weather would be a good idea but probably unenforceable, unless they went to the highly expensive (and therefore unlikely) extent of installing pro-active electronic schemes (such as on the M42 between the M40 and M6 junctions).
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Ron

Minx · Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:47 pm Post subject:

SantaFefan · Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:47 pm Post subject:

nod · Joined: 24 Dec 2006 Posts: 3558

I've always wondered how can it be safe for the police to drive faster than the limit, (on emergencies or not it appears) if it's the fact of driving fast is dangerous ? Rolling Eyes

SantaFefan · Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:32 pm Post subject:

Some of the video takes on the various police TV programmes shows this to be true in my opinion.
Sure, the police drivers are specially trained to respond more rapidly and handle a speeding car more effectively but it's the innocent drivers and pedestrians who are being placed at unnecessary risk.
And for what? a lengthy pursuit at ridiculous speeds down suburban roads with kids everywhere to catch up with some yobs who'll get a slap on the wrist?
My opinion is do as the Americans do, push the offenders off the road at the first safe opportunity. They forfeit their rights when they committed the crime.
Why are British Police cars not fitted with push bars like the US cars?
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gfloyd · Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:25 pm Post subject:

SantaFefan · Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:34 pm Post subject:

I would have thought part of the reason for the drop in pedestrian deaths is the provision of protective barriers, pedestrianisation of many town roads, more new roads which take heavy traffic away from suburbs, the drop in drunk driving and of course better brakes and steering on modern cars.
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Johnnie Walker read out my message on Pirate Radio! Very Happy

13/8/07
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Barkingbiker · Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 2313 Location: Lincolnshire

You are right ernie, we now have compulsive fitting and wearing of seat belts, better brakes, tyres and handling, air bags, side impact bars and at last public opinion that drink driving is not acceptable and a real crime. Cars are safer now than they were 40 years ago; lets get rid of those "bull bars" on Chelsea tractors to make it even safer for pedestrians.

BB Twisted Evil

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firewirefred · Guest

iwarburton · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 2133 Location: Northumberland

If you're driving on the A69 in Northumberland, please note that the speed camera on the way out of Haydon Bridge towards Hexham is in good working order.

I know because I was 'done' there just before going on holiday!

It was my first such detected lapse in 30+ years of driving.

Is this my Pitlochry moment, doing a Boggy or what?

Ian.

seymourwhitebits · Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 560 Location: Birmingham

nod · Joined: 24 Dec 2006 Posts: 3558

Barkingbiker · Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 2313 Location: Lincolnshire

seymourwhitebits · Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 560 Location: Birmingham

I did ADI training a while back and it just stuck with me. All about being in the right gear for the speed. One of those annoying gits who does the speed limit I'm afraid. Twisted Evil

Saying that though I have always managed to do my job as a multi-drop lorry driver for the last 16 years without having to speed and if I can get all my deliveries done without tearing around like a loon whats stopping everyone else. Confused

(BTW thats B'ham to Market Harboro' and then start 26 drops in Mkt Harboro' Corby, Kettering, Wellingboro' and work my way into central Northants and then back to B'ham- all at the signed speed limits and an engine restricted 56mph on the motorway)

At the end of the day everyone can speed and get away with it, but when you have that crash or knock someone down, will "I was running late" or "I've got loads of deliveries to do" or "it's my human right to be able to drive as fast as I bloody want to" really hold much water with their relatives? or the judge? Confused

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nod · Joined: 24 Dec 2006 Posts: 3558

You are right of course, I'm don't disagree that speed can be to blame and something has to be done to stop these deaths, I don't want it to be me or my family..

But the view that it's all the fault of anybody speeding and can be solved by fining thousands in my view is wrong (until everyone is banned from the road Wink

). They are easy targets, and this is not solving the problem. I do not believe the information put out that speed cameras are solving the problem, I notice they now include deaths & serious injuries to make the figures look better and hide the fact deaths haven't gone down in our area. There is also some debate what a serious injury is. Lets see some proof that speed cameras have improved serious injury rates and it's not down to better cars, air bags etc.

Maybe more ideas are needed including better driver training is required, as the reason that the police can speed (and I am not advocating speeding for all) is that they are trained then why not your average motorist ?

Lets stop these deaths and stop just persecuting the easy targets.

seymourwhitebits · Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 560 Location: Birmingham

agree with you Nod about the speed cameras. I see very few of them at an "accident blackspot". The most dangerous stretch of road by us hasn't got a camera anywhere near it! Confused

However, where we live is quite a hilly area and if you are going down one of these hills at 30 (employing engine breaking by using gears correctly - sorry adi training still there Embarassed

) you can bet your life as soon as you get to the spot on the hill where the car begins to run away from you slightly THERE is where the camera is placed. Now I can hear certain people saying "well thats where you start using your brakes!"

Well you'd be right BUT it doesnt change the fact that cameras are positioned to maximise potential infringement ( ker-ching!) and NOT to reduce road deaths. I would rather see DANGEROUS driving(which includes speeding) penalised heavier especially in a built up area. 40 in a 30 zone is more dangerous than 80 on a motorway. The biggest menace IMO is the motorist who simply MUST get another car ahead no matter what getting past them involves, speeding, crossing double white lines, tailgating, driving up kerbs. Thats the kind of driving that ends in tears (usually for the other guy)

I lose count of the amount of motorists who speed upto a camera then slam their brakes on and actually think that cutting into the inside lane will help in case they trip the camera they can argue that they were in the inside lane so couldnt have been speeding Confused

, then as soon as they pass it, back out into the outside lane and scream off into the distance. THEY are the ones who should be clamped down on. A camera wont catch 'em but a Police patrol would ( whatever happened to them?)

At the end of the day SPEED does kill but not as much as arrogant driving.
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"Timpani!, Timpani!, They've all got it Timpani!"- All drummers know the pain of skin trouble.

John W · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 3367 Location: Warwickshire, UK

Barkingbiker · Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 2313 Location: Lincolnshire

Well as for AC, the drag created by opening a window will use more energy, in most cases, than switching on the AC. Lets stop building Cabriolets, mine does 6 mpg less with the hood down, but what the hell it's cracking fun. Modern climate control systems help to keep the driver more comfortable and alert, thus reducing "accidents", Idea

lets make that compulsary as a safety feature. Many motorcycle "accidents" are caused by four wheeled drivers not seeing the biker, do we ban the bikes or the four wheeled vehicles?

BB Twisted Evil

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seymourwhitebits · Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 560 Location: Birmingham

you ban the lousy driver/rider.(delete as applicable) Wink

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"Timpani!, Timpani!, They've all got it Timpani!"- All drummers know the pain of skin trouble.

Barkingbiker · Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 2313 Location: Lincolnshire

Nice one seymour, trouble is they tend to clear off before anybody notices! Evil or Very Mad

BB

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seymourwhitebits · Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 560 Location: Birmingham

too bloody true mate!! Evil or Very Mad

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"Timpani!, Timpani!, They've all got it Timpani!"- All drummers know the pain of skin trouble.

firewirefred · Guest