R2OK! Forum Index R2OK!
Contact R2OK! admin

Click here for R2OK! Website


 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Tories Leading

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    R2OK! Forum Index -> News and Current Affairs
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mark occomore



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 9955
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:59 am    Post subject: Tories Leading Reply with quote

LONDON (Reuters) - The Conservatives enjoyed their strongest support for 15 years on Sunday with the latest opinion poll capping a bruising week for Prime Minister Gordon Brown.
(Advertisement)

Brown had enjoyed a honeymoon period with voters during his first 100 days in office but his comfortable 11-point poll lead has now evaporated in the face of a policy onslaught by Conservative leader David Cameron.

Brown was pilloried in the press and by the opposition after deciding last weekend not to call a snap election two and half years early.

The ICM poll for the Sunday Telegraph showed the Conservatives on 43 per cent, seven points ahead of Labour on 36. The Liberal Democrats trailed in a distant third with 14 percent.

The Conservatives, trounced in the past three elections by Brown's predecessor Tony Blair, have seized the initiative with a string of popular tax-cutting policies.

In sharp contrast, Brown was widely derided for fuelling election fever only to back off when his comfortable opinion poll lead evaporated.

Brown's Chancellor Alistair Darling was then accused of stealing Conservative policies when he unveiled new inheritance tax cuts in his pre-budget report.

Cameron, under attack from right-wingers in his party until his fortunes were sharply reversed, renewed another line of attack on Sunday -- over the European Union.

"I think people are tired of being treated like fools by the government, whether over the decision to cancel the general election, the kind of con we saw in this week's pre-budget report or the fake arguments in defence of the European constitution," Cameron wrote in the Sunday Telegraph.

Brown, who replaced Blair as premier in June, is under strong pressure to give voters a referendum on the EU treaty. He is being urged to do so by the Conservatives, newspapers and some members of his own Labour Party.

Blair offered voters a referendum on the old EU constitution, rejected by French and Dutch voters in 2005. But Brown argues the new treaty is far less ambitious.

Brown has said he had to be absolutely sure British national interests were safeguarded in negotiations on the treaty that are due to wrap up at an EU summit in Lisbon.

The treaty provides for a long-term EU president, a stronger foreign policy chief and a more democratic voting system.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All the bitching wont help? They always taking policies off each other. True the honeymoon is over, unless a major crises to happen on main land britian. At least Gordon and Cameron gave there praises to our Rugby team. Hopefully he will do the same when we qualify for Euro 2008 football on Wednesday?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nod



Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 3558

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who are these people they poll who seem to be convinced by a few sound bites to the media ?. Theses are career politicians who will say anything to get you to vote for them. Rolling Eyes

I am getting sick to death of news (R2, BBC etc) reporting this hyped up stuff as headlines, it's just the parties manipualting the media who have nothing else to report. Evil or Very Mad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Toggy tea slurper
Guest





PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you nod, I hate the way the media whip up 'controversy' Fact is there is not going to be an election, it's about time the Tories got over themsleves Rolling Eyes

By the way I don't support labour, I don't support anyone, normally I don't vote and sh1te like this from the media is one reason why.
Back to top
Barkingbiker



Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 2313
Location: Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if people cannot be bothered to utilize their democratic right to vote, they cannot moan about the government policies. This of course is a sign of our whole British society now, IMHO, like many aspects of todays society, use it or loose it!

BB Twisted Evil
_________________
Old Bikers Never Die, our leathers just get tighter!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
firewirefred
Guest





PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barkingbiker wrote:
Well if people cannot be bothered to utilize their democratic right to vote, they cannot moan about the government policies. This of course is a sign of our whole British society now, IMHO, like many aspects of todays society, use it or loose it!

BB Twisted Evil


How I agree with you, BB. How right you are. The big problem is that we have rather too many people in the UK who complain like hell about absolutely everything, and then on the other hand say stupid things like: "I'm not interested in politics". What they're so stupid to understand is that politics is about life and the way we run things in relation to each other. If we don't take part, we don't deserve to have it.

And I don't give a toss about these silly polls either, Mark. The only polls worth taking any notice of are the real ones.
Back to top
Barkingbiker



Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 2313
Location: Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes fred it does not matter which party you support, you should vote as it is a hard won right. As Joni Mitchell says, "you don't know what you've got till it's gone".

BB Twisted Evil
_________________
Old Bikers Never Die, our leathers just get tighter!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mark occomore



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 9955
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

firewirefred wrote:


"I'm not interested in politics". What they're so stupid to understand is that politics is about life and the way we run things in relation to each other.


And I don't give a toss about these silly polls either, Mark. The only polls worth taking any notice of are the real ones.



Good then you won't need to continue to discuss them on here.

You might not, but some other fellow posters may do.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gfloyd



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 4861
Location: Here, There, Everywhere.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

firewirefred wrote:
Barkingbiker wrote:
Well if people cannot be bothered to utilize their democratic right to vote, they cannot moan about the government policies. This of course is a sign of our whole British society now, IMHO, like many aspects of todays society, use it or loose it!

BB Twisted Evil


How I agree with you, BB. How right you are. The big problem is that we have rather too many people in the UK who complain like hell about absolutely everything, and then on the other hand say stupid things like: "I'm not interested in politics". What they're so stupid to understand is that politics is about life and the way we run things in relation to each other. If we don't take part, we don't deserve to have it.

And I don't give a toss about these silly polls either, Mark. The only polls worth taking any notice of are the real ones.


I agree with BB and fred that if you dont vote, you have no right to complain about the state of the country.

However the polls are a snapshot of the mood of the country and are certainly more scientific than other ways of guaging the mood of people.
_________________
His name was ernie ........ and he drove the fastest milk cart in the west.....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nod



Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 3558

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"However the polls are a snapshot of the mood of the country and are certainly more scientific than other ways of guaging the mood of people."

but still possibly wrong...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RockitRon



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 7646

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

... and a week, or two, is a long time in politics, and polls, to apraphrase the well known saying. Only a mere four weekends previously the media was full of the polls putting Gordon Brown's New Labour 11 points ahead.

Technically we do not need to have a General Election until May 2010, so they're all pointless anyway.
_________________
Ron
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mark occomore



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 9955
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the Blairs men and Women were wheeled out for the interviews. Former Lord Chancellor Lord Falconer has urged Mr Brown to outline his "vision for the future of the UK". I think he was worried about his pension.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
iwarburton



Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 2133
Location: Northumberland

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The polls have several times been wrong--general elections in 1970 and 1992 wrongly forecast a Labour victory and the polls of October 1974 grossly overestimated the Labour majority.

Why don't we stop spending money on all political polls other than elections themselves?

Ian.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gfloyd



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 4861
Location: Here, There, Everywhere.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iwarburton wrote:

Why don't we stop spending money on all political polls other than elections themselves?

Ian.


Well because its not your money that is being spent perhaps and its a free country so people can spend their money on what they choose.

The notion that public opinion should only be sampled once every 4 years is a bizarre one. Its like the Chinese communist party only meeting once every 5 years.

I'd rather have regular polling than rely on the (much more) unscientific loonies calling the Jeremy Vine show and purporting to represent what the public thinks.
_________________
His name was ernie ........ and he drove the fastest milk cart in the west.....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
firewirefred
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gfloyd wrote:
However the polls are a snapshot of the mood of the country and are certainly more scientific than other ways of guaging the mood of people.


What a poll tells you is entirely dependent upon the questions asked and the way they're asked (as all good market researchers know). At least with a proper secret ballot, as per a general election, you can't make it any simpler than asking somebody to put an "X" in only one of the boxes.

That's why I said I don't think polls are worth a jot.
Back to top
gfloyd



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 4861
Location: Here, There, Everywhere.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This really is getting to be the anti-science/ math website.

So the question is "If there was an election tomorrow, who would you vote for?"

Are you denying there is a correlation bewtween the polls and actual vote results? If yes, then I'm sure you still believe in dropping women down wells to see whether they are witches or not Laughing
_________________
His name was ernie ........ and he drove the fastest milk cart in the west.....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Behind Geddon's Wall



Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 1553
Location: Kingston Upon Hull/ The Cloud Factory

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is only 1 poll that counts.
_________________
Geddon

You simply mustn't blame yourself -- the days were perfect
And so were exactly what I was born to spoil
For I am the Rider to the World's End
Bound across the cinder causeway
From the furnace to the quarry
Through the fields of oil
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RockitRon



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 7646

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Opinion polls are all very well, but the "who would you vote for" type seem to be conducted far too frequently and too much importance is attached to them. We've just seen that polls taken over the party conference season have shown an apparently huge swing in public sentiment, first one way then the other. It may be good for us to see our leading political figures squirming under the media heat thus generated but I cannot help but think that you can have too much of a good thing and that our and their attention should be focused on more serious matters.

Besides which, no-one ever asks me Cool
_________________
Ron
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gfloyd



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 4861
Location: Here, There, Everywhere.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Behind Geddon's Wall wrote:
There is only 1 poll that counts.


A bit of a cliche, especially when the polls did for Ming. They are an inexact feedback mechanism but they do cause parties to change path. So they certainly do matter.
_________________
His name was ernie ........ and he drove the fastest milk cart in the west.....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
firewirefred
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gfloyd wrote:
Behind Geddon's Wall wrote:
There is only 1 poll that counts.


A bit of a cliche, especially when the polls did for Ming. They are an inexact feedback mechanism but they do cause parties to change path. So they certainly do matter.


The fact that Campbell's colleagues had a knee-jerk reaction to a poll shows how bad a state of affairs it all is. Meanwhile, there's only one poll that counts....
Back to top
gfloyd



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 4861
Location: Here, There, Everywhere.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

firewirefred wrote:


The fact that Campbell's colleagues had a knee-jerk reaction to a poll shows how bad a state of affairs it all is. Meanwhile, there's only one poll that counts....


Well I hope thats consolation to Ming. I suspect not somehow.
_________________
His name was ernie ........ and he drove the fastest milk cart in the west.....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
firewirefred
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gfloyd wrote:
firewirefred wrote:


The fact that Campbell's colleagues had a knee-jerk reaction to a poll shows how bad a state of affairs it all is. Meanwhile, there's only one poll that counts....


Well I hope thats consolation to Ming. I suspect not somehow.


I don't think it will be either, but the situation that the party forced him into is nonetheless an indictment on the political climate in which they're operating - and why I think these "polls" are a nonsense to be ignored.
Back to top
RockitRon



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 7646

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When the dust has settled I think he'll find it something of a relief.

He never looked, or sounded, comfortable in the role, and probably only got the nod because of the failings of the other contenders at the time, not to mention those of Charles Kennedy. (Which is not to say that I approve of the way he has been forced to resign.)

He can go back to being a sage, and a relatively calm contributor to Question Time and other political discussion programmes.
_________________
Ron
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gfloyd



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 4861
Location: Here, There, Everywhere.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

firewirefred wrote:


I don't think it will be either, but the situation that the party forced him into is nonetheless an indictment on the political climate in which they're operating - and why I think these "polls" are a nonsense to be ignored.


No the polls have just confirmed what they knew in their hear of hearts anyway, namely this guy doesnt have what it takes to lead a political party. It wasnt his age that did for him, it was the fact that he acted about 10 years older than his real age!

Blaming the polls is like shooting the messenger: easier than dealing with an unpalatable truth.
_________________
His name was ernie ........ and he drove the fastest milk cart in the west.....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    R2OK! Forum Index -> News and Current Affairs All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group. Hosted by phpBB.BizHat.com