R2OK!

Scott_Nelson · Guest

I have discovered this on the BBC Points of View messageboard:

Friday Night is Music Night is to undergo a revamp in the new year. Apparently, the show is to showcase more modern acts, with groups and singers such as The Kaizer Chiefs, Lily Allen and Gwen Stefani performing live, along with Jamie Callum, Michael Buble, Elton John and Michael Ball, for example.

Basically, the show will retain it's classical/jazz image but not every week like it currently does. I think the changes are to try to appeal to a broader audience. Interestingly, I watched the BBC Four documentary on Radio 2 last weekend and wasn't amazed to see the majority of the audience to FNIMN are elderly. I welcome the changes to FNIMN.

I have also heard Kate Thornton, Lauren Laverne, Mark Radcliffe, Stuart Maconie, Steve Lamacq and Dermot O'Leary are to start hosting the show. I guess they will introduce the younger acts whereas anything classical and jazzy will be introduced by Aled Jones, Paul Gambaccini, Clare Teale, Elaine Paige, Michael Ball and Russell Davies.

Finally, the show will, apparently, move to a new 8.00 - 10.00pm slot.

I guess Lesley Douglas is, once again, pandering to the younger audience. These changes will surely alienate the veteran and older audiences? There were quite a few complaints last year when FNIMN featured modern acts and laid the classical/jazzy stuff to rest on some weeks!

What do you make of these changes then?

I don't know if this is true but it seems quite authentic (there's not a whiff of Iain Smith about it. Plus the grammar is good). Yet more evidence of Radio 2 being "dumbed down" to the expense of the older listeners. Whatever next? Tim Westwood moving to Radio 2 to host a rap show?

Excuse us Lesley Douglas for "getting old" as time goes on. At this rate Radio 2 will only be for Tweenies. Mind you, it is already is at certain times of the week... Rolling Eyes

iwarburton · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 2133 Location: Northumberland

I'm reluctant to say much on this (yes, really!) as I seldom listen to FNIMN nowadays. There seems to be less and less inclination to cater for older listeners today so I wouldn't greatly favour further modernisation of the programme in the absence of evidence that this is really wanted by the full range of listeners.

Ian.

gfloyd

John W · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 3367 Location: Warwickshire, UK

Ernie/gfloyd,

Well of course the under 40s are not dumb, but most do limit their musical preferences to what they listened to when they were 20 and what their favourite artistes might still be doing today, see the reunion bands and for maybe older rock fans the Clapton etc albums coming out now.

If I may interpret Scott's 'dumbing down' comment I think he may mean that if Radio 2 is increasingly featuring music that is heard during the daytime shows, and on countless commercial stations every day, then they are 'dumbing down' by reducing choice on a Friday night, OK the FNINM is a unique 'live' show but will lose many of the fans who prefer light opera, piano works, swing vocalists and who are limited to Melodies for You (Titchy) and Parky on a Sunday.

John W

Scott_Nelson · Guest

That is exactly what I meant, John. It's the same with Mark Radcliffe & Stuart Maconie's evening show which has been introduced at the expense of the specialist programming. I don't like their paring and I think the specialist programmes have been marginalised as a result of the schedule changes.

gfloyd · Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:30 pm Post subject:

It is strange though that Radio 2 has no regular long form In Concert type show for bands it plays most extensively during the daytime shows. I would suggest that Saturday night would be the best time for this.

Incidentally FNIMN has never been that "challenging" with songs from musicals, tv & movie theme tunes and very well known classical tunes forming the main stay. Not that I am complaining as it can be a pleasant diversion on a Friday evening in the car, but it cant really be dumbed down too much.
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His name was ernie ........ and he drove the fastest milk cart in the west.....

Scott_Nelson · Guest

John W · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 3367 Location: Warwickshire, UK

Tonight (19th Oct) we have a traditional FNIMN concert with two singers of light opera, a virtuoso instrumentalist and a smattering of light music and film music.

It might be mainly 'classical music', but of the type not heard on Radio 3 and though the tunes may be regularly heard on ClassicFM they only play them performed by the top artistes and orchestras on CD from the last 40 years, whereas R2 treat us to live versions by up and coming artistes. Ailish Tynan is charming.

Enjoyable show, maybe a bit cheesy to have Alison Balsom playing the likes of Mozart's Queen of the Night on the TRUMPET but she does play a nice bit of a Hummel concerto later, a piece likely not heard on R2 before.

John W

Scott_Nelson · Guest

Do you think the mix of classical and jazz with modern-day music and artists will work, John? When the changes are made to FNIMN one week could be like last night's show then the next could be Lily Allen live.

John W · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 3367 Location: Warwickshire, UK

Scott,

It might work, not sure.

There are usually trailers about FNIMN to alert listeners what's coming, if there is a special guest. The ticket-buying audience will consist of mainly the guest's fans as happened with Donny Osmond, Buble, Alison Moyet etc who have been on before, but the show might still be getting the FNIMN regulars because of the MOTR content.

The likes of Lily Allen, Kaiser Chiefs have more under-30s fanbase, a completely different audience, so as someone else suggested there should be an 'In Concert' programme/show maybe on a Saturday night to cater for those, and when you think about it those acts are more r1 than r2 even though they get play on r2.

John W

mark occomore · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK

I think it's been hosted with the likes of Aled Jones for some time? Richard Allinson was heard presenting the FNIMN a while ago

Mindda · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 37

As I live on the outskirts of London I go to the recordings of FNIMN quite often.

The tickets are usually free - last night, which I also went to, was an exception, as it was part of a local musical festival and was held in the local theatre, Dorking Halls. Tickets started at £10 and went up from there; it was noticeabe that, although the Mermaid, LSO St Lukes etc where they are usually held, are invariably packed out, Dorking Halls had a good many spare seats.

One comment that has not been made: people come in to London for the recordings in coachloads from, sometimes, some distance away, and yes, they are, generally, elderly. The finishing time of 9.15 means they can leave London by 9.30ish and be back in Gravesend, Sheerness etc by a reasonable hour. If it does not finish until 10.00, I think many will think twice about coming, as they will be back considerably later - so many of the regular audience may indeed be lost.

Re presenters - it is usually now Paul Gambacchini, Ken Bruce and Aled Jones. Aled was brought in as a younger presenter almost 2 years ago, and did not always find it easy at first - within the audience that usually attends, as above, he felt that he was seen as the young interloper!! But he has got over that and been well accepted.

To me the main problem will be the alienation of the usual audience, and the question as to whether others will attend the recordings if the usual audience falls away? And the sadness that many of the usual attenders will feel if this Friday night pleasure is no longer accesible for them.

iwarburton · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 2133 Location: Northumberland

One comment that has not been made: people come in to London for the recordings in coachloads from, sometimes, some distance away, and yes, they are, generally, elderly. The finishing time of 9.15 means they can leave London by 9.30ish and be back in Gravesend, Sheerness etc by a reasonable hour. If it does not finish until 10.00, I think many will think twice about coming, as they will be back considerably later - so many of the regular audience may indeed be lost.
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Given the increasingly cavalier attitiude to older listeners, could this be a deliberate ploy?

Ian.

Scott_Nelson · Guest

I think the changes to Friday Night is Music Night are to try and encourage a broader audience. Friday Night is Music Night has reputation of being a granny programme, something that isn't cool anymore. I saw the BBC Four documentary on Radio 2 a few weeks ago and every presenter shown had a grey and white haired audience.

Rather than Radio 2 axe Friday Night is Music Night, my guess it is trying to broaden its appeal. Would people prefer the programme was axed after all? Also, regarding the hours the show is on, I think 8.00 - 10.00pm is much better. Times have changed; why should the show finish at 9.15pm just so the audience can be home in time for their nightly cup of cocoa?

This is the problem Lesley Douglas has got with the over fifties: many aren't prepared to adjust and move with the times. Radio 2 is evolving all the time. People should be satisfied Friday Night is Music Night is about to have some new life injected into it rather than the programme fall foul to Lesley Douglas' axe.

gfloyd · Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:29 pm Post subject:

Still no confirmation that any of this is happening. Its all just speculation.
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His name was ernie ........ and he drove the fastest milk cart in the west.....

Scott_Nelson · Guest

And I beg to differ. If it had have been an Iain Smith report then maybe.

gfloyd · Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:10 pm Post subject:

Scott_Nelson · Guest

Yes, and in some circumstances, speculation has turned out to be correct. Not always, but it has done in the past.

Mindda · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 37

"Times have changed; why should the show finish at 9.15pm just so the audience can be home in time for their nightly cup of cocoa?"

This is somewhat harsh isn't it? However much you try to broaden your appeal, an audience is still needed and to alienate a loyal audience is unwise.

It is not so much a matter of being home for your cocoa, I suspect, it could be a matter of feeling safe. If the coaches leave London at 10.15 they are unlikely to be back in Gravesend etc much before 11.00, then the individual audience members have to make their ways home. For many of that age, that can be a problem after 11.00 for various reasons, and I suspect many may feel that they can't enjoy coming so much if they are uneasy about getting back. It does not affect me, I have frequent transport links, but I am able to think about how it may be for others. Maybe, as you will one day get older yourself, Laughing

you could think about it from their point of view Smile

Scott_Nelson · Guest

People have to move with the times. FNIMN cannot remain stuck in the past just because some people want to get to bed early - and those who aren't prepared to adjust to change.

gfloyd

WEDNESDAY

Scott_Nelson · Guest

That was before you lot knew who I was, DUUURRR! Rolling Eyes

Mindda · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 37

"People have to move with the times. FNIMN cannot remain stuck in the past just because some people want to get to bed early"

Did you actually read what I wrote?

"It could be a matter of feeling safe"and "For many of that age, that (ie getting home at that time of night) can be a problem after 11.00 for various reasons"

We seem to have changed from having cocoa to getting to bed early (early?!! not home until well after 11.00?!) - but both have missed the point being made. Sad

Scott_Nelson · Guest

Yes I did read what you wrote.

Perhaps live concerts should now be re-schedule to teatimes so people can get home at a reasonable time?

Mindda · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 37

Oh please! Rolling Eyes

Right this is the last time I will try and explain and maybe try and make it a little clearer, then give up.

Most of these people do not come into London for concerts on a regular basis, indeed hardly at all apart from FNIMN - as pensioners they are on limited incomes, and as I already said the tickets for FNIMN are free (usually). This is often their "evening out of the week". However, as you get older, staying out later does become a less comfortable experience.

There are plenty of other concerts for those who can afford to come in, get back and afford taxis home etc. Most of the people who come to FNIMN can afford the shared coach in but not much more, so the timing of other concerts is irrelevant. Anyway no-one is talking about changing other concerts - they are discussing changes to one establised arrangement and the effect that might have on thosee who attend, what goes on elsewhere is not relevant.

All I was doing was pointing out the effect on the group that generally attend. However, you are right, of course, they should be ignored or shoved to one side without thought..... and I should never have pointed out the implications of the change for them. I hope there is more consideration when you reach that age. Or to put it another way - do think of others, please.

And don't worry, I shan't answer any other posting on this; I've done what I wanted to do and have pointed out the possible effect on those who have loyally supported FNIMN for so long.

Scott_Nelson · Guest

And you have failed to recognise WHY Friday Night is Music Night is to undergo a change. The show is stuck in the past and only seems to appeal to a minority - mostly people aged over 50. Friday Night is Music Night is one show that has been left to stagnate; it HASN'T evolved or moved with the times. Radio 2 have finally accepted this and want the show to appeal to a much broader audience. I see no reason why the show should retain its current time slot just because a coach load of pensioners don't want to travel after midnight. Or, to put it in another context, leaving the show where it is currently just because of a minority audience.

Many of the changes Lesley Douglas has made to Radio 2 in some circumstances have alienated listeners - and she knows some of her schedule changes will alienate some listeners and satisfy others. Some listeners are too stuck in the past and hate change. Things on Radio 2 cannot stay as they are forever.

Eventually, Terry Wogan will quit breakfast. The chances are Chris Evans or Jonathan Ross will replace him. The show will probably change its time slot. No matter who succeeds Wogan, a fair amount of controversy will be caused. The breakfast show format will also change. People will have to adjust to the changes, and if they don't like it then they can do one of two things: lump it or listen to another breakfast show.

Lesley Douglas knows the changes to Friday Night is Music Night will upset the elderly audience, however, some of the broadcasts are pre-recorded, so I cannot see what the problem is. The pre-recorded concerts may well be from 7.30 - 9.30pm; the broadcast on Radio 2 will be 8.00 - 10.00pm. The live concerts will obviously go out between 8.00 - 10.00pm. Those who decide they don't want to attend because of the time changes can listen indoors instead. If I went to a live gig then I would be disappointed if it finished at 9.15pm. The only advantage would be we could hit the bars and clubs afterwards rather than jump on a coach home.

I welcome the proposed changes, others won't - but that's life.

John W · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 3367 Location: Warwickshire, UK

Scott,

FNIMN is one of Radio 2's specialist shows. So I see no reason to 'broaden the audience' as it would no longer be specialist and indeed would lose the core audience.

Any other specialist programmes whose audience you would like to broaden?

How about Humph featuring the elevator-music featured on theJazz? How about Paul Jones featuring today's latest ' R&B ' from P Diddy, or Mike Hardings folk show featuring folk music from the slopes of Alpamayo, Peru ?

You've never really understood the purpose of specialist programmes on Radio 2 Scott Rolling Eyes

I do hope Lesley Douglas does Wink

John W

Scott_Nelson · Guest

Excuse me John, but perhaps you should phrase your posting to Lesley Douglas? I merely support the changes to Friday Night is Music Night.

John W · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 3367 Location: Warwickshire, UK

Scott_Nelson · Guest

John,

My previous calls to "axe" Friday Night is Music Night are now withdrawn because I am impressed with Lesley Douglas' decision to "broaden the horizon of Friday Night is Music Night". This could be the one show where all live acts could be heard.

Earlier this year there was a write-up in the Radio Times regarding the changes that are needed to Friday Night is Music Night. The changes highlighted are all mentioned in my opening posting. So, perhaps Lesley Douglas has been listening to the critics after all? There was even a suggestion in the Radio Times write-up that Friday Night is Music Night was moved over to Radio 3.

Rather than Lesley Douglas axe this programme completely I would like to see the show modernised. You have already pointed out that certain live acts should be broadcast on Radio 1. I guess these live acts on Radio 2 are all part of the Radio 1, 2 and 6 Music overlap. Indeed there is far too much overlap between the three stations.

Lesley Douglas has obviously conducted research and wants Friday Night is Music Night to become the home of live music on Radio 2. I can't see a problem with that.

I might ask why Charles Hazelwood is not a presenter of Friday Night is Music Night because I think he would suit the classical output. I did laugh out loud about a posting about Charles Hazlewood on R3OK! the other week. The poster said Charles Hazelwood looked like a demented windmill when he waves his arms about (when he's conducting). That still makes me chuckle. Some of your lot on R3OK! don't appear to like Charles Hazelwood very much - or Alan Titchmarsh.

Scott_Nelson · Guest

By the way, Lesley Douglas wanted to "broaden the horizon" of Melodies for You, hence why she axed Sheridan Morley and introduced Alan Titchmarsh. Perhaps she felt a younger audience would tune in? I'm not too sure what you think about Alan Titchmarsh on Melodies for You but the Radio Times radio critic (the same person who criticised Friday Night is Music Night earlier this year) praised Titchy a few months after he succeed Sheridan Morley. I also think Alan Titchmarsh should become a presenter of Friday Night is Music Night. I have to say that he is way better than his predecessor on Melodes for You.

John W · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 3367 Location: Warwickshire, UK

Scott,

Let me answer those points as someone who was well-suited to the old 100BT and MFY and for the traditional type FNIMN.

Scott_Nelson · Guest

I thought you were a fan of Alan Titchmarsh, John? What is it you're disliking about Melodies for You?

I remember you saying you think the show comes on too early (when the grandchildren are still running around the house and the relatives are still over). I agree. I think the show should be pruned back to 7pm. Why not have a classic comedy slot on from 6.30 - 7.00pm Sundays?

igs007 · Joined: 18 Aug 2007 Posts: 190

I certainly don't think over 50s are a minority in this country, neither as an audience for the radio.

You're implying that modernising these shows to appeal to a younger age is always good. So what do the older audiences do? Move to another station? Classic gold etc? Ok, but aren't younger audiences also well catered elsewhere? I know this leads to other debates, but the point is one shouldn't assume all modernisation is good. I'm in my early 20s and find Mr.Evans to be a pain in the... and I switch off. It appears others have switched on in my place, to maintain stable listening figures. That's fine. It's the personality that's the problem there. BUT tinkering with a more specialist show is a whole different argument.

Scott_Nelson · Guest

Lesley Douglas is trying to get Radio 2 to appeal to a much younger audience. Many of the changes she has made to Radio 2 signify this. It's not all Dame Douglas' doing, though because she is also instructed to make changes Radio 2 by her superiors.

Evolution - something that Friday Night is Music Night is about to undergo.

firewirefred · Guest

Scott_Nelson · Guest

firewirefred · Guest

Scott_Nelson · Guest

I remember circa 1995 watching some of those black and white programmes on Bravo! I'm sure they showed Emergency Ward 10 that starred Desmond Carrington!

As for the over 50's, Lesley Douglas does appear to be brushing them to one side. The changes made to Friday nights and Sundays signify this. It's hard to believe the late Sheridan Morley once hosted Matthew Wright's current slot! Friday Night is Music Night is to also undergo a revamp next year.

Sundays have also seen changes: Don Maclean, Ed Stewart, Sheridan Morley, Richard Baker were axed; Sunday afternoons now sound "decent" between 2.30 - 6.30pm, Russell Davies has been relegated to Sunday nights (a phrase he used when his show was moved last January), and now Michael Parkinson is on his way out. I very much doubt the Parky format will remain once he's gone. Cue another celebrity taking over the Sunday slot. The programming for the over 50's on Radio 2 has been marginalised to Friday and Sunday nights (where, I daresay, Lesley Douglas will leave it to fester and stagnate).

Anyway, I'd much rather they did re-runs of the Kenny Everett Show on Sundays, 11.00am - 1.00pm!

Scott_Nelson · Guest

Oh, I dunno WHY I am moaning because Lesley Douglas is doing pretty much what I have been wishing for these last 4 years! Twisted Evil