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Planes crash close to home

 
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John W



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 3367
Location: Warwickshire, UK

PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:09 pm    Post subject: Planes crash close to home Reply with quote

Tragic air collision

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20080817/tuk-uk-britain-aircraft-fa6b408.html

Rather close to home Shocked

We can walk to one of the crash scenes by footpath, and the other is close to where our gym is.

More problems for Coventry airport. I suspect it's not really up to scratch for the traffic it carries. As well as handling a lot of post office parcels etc there are some cheap airlines working out of there, Thomson does flights to Poland, Venice etc., a lot of private jets use it, and there's a lot of training flights and helicopters etc etc.

It wants to expand but residents and council objections always hold up any plans, and without the expansion I suppose it's radar might not be much good, maybe Cherski knows?? Where IS Cherski?

Past problems include a long battle with protestors about exporting live calfs from the airport, that came to an abrupt end when a female protestor got run over and killed by a calf lorry. Probably her own fault but what a tragedy, she was a lovely woman (saw her on TV at the time).

I just don't know if the latest tragedy will lead to an expansion/improvement or stop any plans altogether.


John W
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Cherskiy



Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 3701
Location: near Amble, Northumberland

PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cherskiy is in the building.....! Smile

(Sorry I haven't been about much recently, too much overtime to do and not enough time to listen to the radio, let alone post here, unfortunately. Crying or Very sad )

Coventry will always suffer because of the proximity of East Midlands and Birmingham Airports, which effectively strangle development. As a haven for light aircraft, flight training and Air Atlantique's base of operations, CVN is fine - and was always going to be a soft touch for the lo-cost airlines who could position a couple of 737s a day there without too much Air Traffic Control restriction, much in the way of landing fees (I suspect the airport practically gave the slots away to get bodies through the terminal) and without huge improvements to the infra-structure.

As for ATC, I can't say at this stage how much of a factor they were in the incident (the AAIB won't publish their report for some time). John is probably right when he says that there may be too much traffic for the airfield. However, they do have Tower, Radar (Approach) and ATIS (Weather information) frequencies. Maybe the pilots weren't keeping as good a look-out as they should have been. ATC instructions are all very well but in the end, the pilot has to make sure he/she's not going to bang into anything else. The Cessna 402 survey aircraft (G-EYES, if you're interested, LEE) had four sets of eyes onboard so you'd think they might have seen the "microlight"* before the incident. Maybe, maybe not, it depends on the vectors each took towards each other.

*There are different types of microlights - this wasn't apparently the hang-glider-fitted-with-a-lawnmower-engine variety but a three-axis machine which resembles a "proper" aircraft. The news today were remarking on it being "homebuilt", with the possible suggestion therein that it was something of a Heath Robinson lash-up. Home-builds today are quite sophisticated affairs, often with just as good workmanship and avionics as aircraft bought from manufacturers.
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Lord Evan Elpuss



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 3417
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land

PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cherskiy wrote:

The Cessna 402 survey aircraft (G-EYES, if you're interested, LEE) had four sets of eyes onboard so you'd think they might have seen the "microlight"* before the incident. Maybe, maybe not, it depends on the vectors each took towards each other.

*There are different types of microlights - this wasn't apparently the hang-glider-fitted-with-a-lawnmower-engine variety but a three-axis machine which resembles a "proper" aircraft. The news today were remarking on it being "homebuilt", with the possible suggestion therein that it was something of a Heath Robinson lash-up. Home-builds today are quite sophisticated affairs, often with just as good workmanship and avionics as aircraft bought from manufacturers.

Thanks for the reggie Chersky. I did see it many years ago. As you say some micros do resemble 'Proper' aircraft. Indeed some makes are offered in both microlight & what used to be called 'Class A' ('proper' aircraft) versions. The fact that it was homebuilt shouldn't be an issue. They have a governing body in the LAA (Light Aircraft Association) which used to be called the PFA (Popular Flying Association) and homebuilt aircraft still have to have a permit to fly, which comes from the CAA, who also issue the certificate of airworthiness that larger production aircraft (like G-EYES) have to have.
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John W



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 3367
Location: Warwickshire, UK

PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for responses Cherskiy and LEE.

Four of the deceased work for a reconnaisance company based at Cov Airport. Can't imagine the feelings that people there are suffering.

'Landlubbers' like myself wonder how the two aircraft couldn't see each other, would it likely be a case that one descended on top of the other where visibility/awareness would be most difficult?

John
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Cherskiy



Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 3701
Location: near Amble, Northumberland

PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Evan Elpuss wrote:
The fact that it was homebuilt shouldn't be an issue. They have a governing body in the LAA (Light Aircraft Association) which used to be called the PFA (Popular Flying Association) and homebuilt aircraft still have to have a permit to fly, which comes from the CAA, who also issue the certificate of airworthiness that larger production aircraft (like G-EYES) have to have.[/size][/color]


Indeed - as a former member of the PFA I agree wholeheartedly. I'm still in regular contact with plenty of home-builders in the north of England and I'd fly in their aircraft any time.

To answer John's question, it's definitely possible. The Cessna 402 has a large blind spot directly underneath, enough for another aircraft (especially one that may not have had a transponder fitted and therefore wouldn't necessarily show up on radar) to move into it unnoticed.

Since neither aircraft will have 'black boxes' fitted, it's down to testimony from the ATC bods, their records, possible eye-witnesses on the ground (who are often unreliable) and possibly the instruments retrieved from the aircraft (if they stopped at the point of impact with each other rather than the ground). The wreckage will also be examined to determine impact points (although that's complicated by the fact that they also crashed into the ground afterwards). The AAIB usually take a few months to compile and publish their report. If I remember, I'll post a copy of it here when it comes out.
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John W



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 3367
Location: Warwickshire, UK

PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One eyewitness said the Cessna remained under control for a few seconds before falling - it landed hundreds of metres fromthe impact point of the smaller plane.

Reports have said the Cessna came down in Brandon Wood but that's not quite right, it came down in Birchley Wood which is between the villages of Brinklow and Binley Woods.

Another tragedy I remember was a crash in 1994 where five people died in a cargo plane which landed in nearby Willenhall Wood on the edge of a council estate.

This time three of the deceased were in fact very experienced pilots who worked for a local reconnaisance company.
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