R2OK!

John W · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 3367 Location: Warwickshire, UK

Radio 2 is Radio 1

Martin Kelner:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/oct/20/radio

mark occomore · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK

This audience isn't particularly attractive to advertisers so I feel that this is exactly where the BBC should fill the gap left by the commercial station. I can't see how Martin K compares some DJ's are the same? One thing Radio 2 gets irritated with the classic/contemporary format. I wish the beeb would create a classic hits & oldies format, 50's-80's core, with just a touch of the 90's plus. With a less repetitive and much wider play list.

Minx · Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject:

Radio 1 is played non-stop at the gym where I work out. Musically, I don't really see any difference at all. Where there is a real difference is in the standard of presenter, the level of banter and the quality of interviews. I thought that Jo Whiley/Wiley(?) person was bad enough, but now she's been replaced by some other female gobby person who is is no better. And the guys who are on early on weekends ..... rubbish.

The R2 I listen to today seems pretty much like the R1 I used to listen to way back. I don't remember it being staffed out by a bunch of illiterates in the way that R1 is these days.

Or maybe my memory is playing tricks on me.

SantaFefan · Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:44 pm Post subject:

gfloyd · Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject:

Radio 1, 2 & 6 are quite similar at times (daytime mainly). But you cant expect the BBC to do anything radical, as long as they are obsessed with being a commercial organisation without the ads (and they have enough ads for themselves anyway!)
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His name was ernie ........ and he drove the fastest milk cart in the west.....

SantaFefan · Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:27 pm Post subject:

Lord Evan Elpuss · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 3417 Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land

MadeinSurrey · Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:38 am Post subject:

I always liked Martin Kelner on Radio 2, and what he says makes a lot of sense. As John W, put it, we have beeen saying the same thing for ages. An awful lot of radio 2 is anathema to me, and I think that applies to most of us on here.

Now don't get me started on the type of music we lost when Parky left. Grrr! Where can I go now, apart from my CD collection, to hear Ella, Frank, Nat, Diana Krall, Oscar Peterson, Count Basie, Satchmo, Peggy Lee etc?

So let's send Brand, O'Leary and their ilk to Radio 1. then perhaps we could have the sort of programmes that R2 used to do so well.
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MiS

Rachel · Guest

iwarburton · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 2133 Location: Northumberland

On Sunday I had what was for me quite a late night and hence heard some of David Jacobs' programme.

What a shame that they scrapped his lunchtime programme, which featured this kind of repertoire, and don't seem keen to interest a younger presenter in taking over the reins.

Ian.

MadeinSurrey · Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:55 am Post subject:

Ian, I agree, and would listen to DJ more often if he was on at an earlier hour. Yes, I know there's Listen Again, but somehow I never get round to that Rolling Eyes

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MiS

Lord Evan Elpuss · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 3417 Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land

How about Desmond Carrington's show? There's a very good and eclectic mix of music. You could hear all those artists on MadeinSurrey's list plus the likes of The Moody Blues & Meat Loaf on his show.
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Lord Evan Elpuss, Your ideal job is a Lumberjack.

iwarburton · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 2133 Location: Northumberland

Very true but DC has a measly one hour per week.

Ian.

Semprini Serenade · Guest

Hello everybody,

Here's an interesting article posted on Digital Spy:

(By the way, I might add that whoever wrote the article knows their stuff, but I totally agree that easy listening, jazz, light music and classical is being marginalised on Radio 2)

I would like Radio 2 to air re-runs of old classics such as Semprini Serenade, Junior Choice, Benny Green, Alan Dell, Hubert Gregg, Your Hundred Best Tunes, Sing Something Simple and many more.

Is this such a bad thing? Is it uncool to be old? That's how Radio 2 has made me feel!

Kind regards,

Terry Cohcrane.

Radio 2 - a game of two halves

BBC Radio 2. It's the nation's favourite radio station boasting a weekly audience of 13 million. The majority of these listeners must surely be satisfied the network's output - or are they?

On many Internet forums there are often conflicts between the older and younger listeners. Many of the older listeners disapprove with the changes made to Radio 2 by Lesley Douglas. Signings such as Chris Evans, Dermot O'Leary, Russell Brand, Claudia Winkleman, Michael Ball, Alan Titchmarsh and Elaine Paige have alienated some listeners. This has led to complaints being posted on the BBC Points of View message board, as well as other independent Internet forums. However, the complaints from the older listeners has led to conflicts with younger listeners on such Internet forums.

Many of the older listeners want the 'old' Radio 2 back, whereby the play list consisted of Ella Fitzgerald, Dame Vera Lynn, Frank Sinatra and Max Bygraves. They would also like 'old voices' to be reinstated to the daytime line up, such as Jimmy Young, David Jacobs, Michael Aspel, Ed Stewart, Michael Parkinson and Desmond Carrington.

Will it ever happen? No, never in a million years. Reason? Because, whether people like it or not, Radio 2 has evolved, and is evolving all the time. Seriously, if the old style Radio 2 was still on air, with presenters such as Derek Jameson, Debbie Thrower and David Jacobs still at the helm, then there is no way the network would boast the amount of listeners as it does today. I suggest that those whom are intent in dragging Radio 2 back to the Frances Line days need to accept the fact that it is never going to happen, so dream on, dudes.

Radio 2 has undergone some major changes since Frances Line was replaced by Jim Moir in 1996. Under Line, Radio 2's music policy was warped. She wanted Radio 2 to appeal to listeners aged "50 to dead", and that's exactly what was happening. For ten years, Radio 2 was a depressing morgue; listening figures started to rapidly decline soon after Radio 2 was dragged back to the year 1945 in 1986 by Frances Line.

In 1993, when Radio 1 was undergoing a major revamp by new controller Matthew Bannister (by orders of the then BBC Director General, Sir John Birt), Radio 2 continued to remain a stagnant network. Matthew Bannister cleared out many of the old dinosaurs because they were not appealing to the nation's youth. Radio 1 was supposed to be a youth station, but instead resembled a clone of Capital Gold. Far too many Smashy and Nicey DJs were on the network.

Some of the old dinosaurs Matthew Bannister axed included Gary Davies, Bruno Brookes (though he manage to escape the axe until April 1995), Bob Harris, Adrian Juste, Johnnie Walker and Jakki Brambles. However, Simon Bates and Dave Lee Travis actually jumped ship before they were pushed as they knew their days were numbered.

Apparently, shortly after his departure from Radio 1, Dave Lee Travis approached Frances Line and asked if he could present his former weekend show on Radio 2. Adrian Juste was also said to have approached Line and offered his services. However, Line refused and said that neither of them would 'fit in' amongst the Radio 2 output, which was absolutely ridiculous.

In my opinion, when Radio 1 was revamped in 1993 the same should have happened to Radio 2. Basically, the old Radio 1 dinosaurs should have been transferred onto Radio 2 where they would have continued to entertain their millions of fans up and down the country. This was not to be the case, which led to the BBC disenfranchising millions of listeners aged 30 to 45, many of whom grew up listening to Radio 1.

As a result of the changes made to Radio 1, many of those disenfranchised listeners defected to the newly launched Virgin Radio, as well as local ILR outlets. It was a disgraceful way for the BBC to treat these listeners. It was like they were being treated with contempt.

Radio 1 became an entirely different station appealing to a much younger demographic. New music genres and presenters were added to the new look network. This, of course, alienated the Smashy and Nicey listeners, but what they didn't accept is Radio 1 was not for them; it was for teenagers and twenty-somethings.

It was to be three years later when Radio 2 was finally liberated from Frances Line and her Grim Reaper regime. Jim Moir became the new controller in January 1996 and started to make changes to the network almost immediately.

Jim Moir claimed that Radio 2's evening and weekend schedule was 'black and white radio'; it was his ambition to change it to 'colour' - and he did just that. Moir axed Brian Hayes , Martin Kelner and Michael Aspel. We then saw Steve Wright and Michael Parkinson introduced to the weekend schedule. Steve Wright presented "Steve Wright's Saturday Show" from 10.00am - 1.00pm, and "Steve Wright's Sunday Love Songs" from 9.00 - 11.00am. Michael Parkinson presented The Sunday Supplement from 11.00am - 1.00pm.

A new Comedy Hour was also introduced to Saturday lunchtimes between 1.00 - 2.00pm. Pam Ayres was also introduced to Sundays, presenting a teatime programme between 5.00 - 7.00pm. Things had started to take shape at Radio 2.

There were further changes to Radio 2 in 1997 when Alan Freeman (also known as Fluff) and Bob Harris were introduced to Saturdays. Fluff presented Pick of the Pops on Saturdays between 4.00 - 5.30pm, and Bob Harris could be heard on Saturday nights, 11.00pm - 1.00am. Due to the immense popularity of Bob's programme, it was extended to a three-hour show later that year, coming on at 10.00pm. Richard Allinson was also introduced, who replaced Derek and Ellen Jameson on late-night Radio 2. Both Derek and Ellen were axed.

1998 saw more changes to the network. More old favourites and new music genres, including modern pop/chart hits, northern soul, indie, rock, reggae, and rock n roll were introduced to the play list. Many old Radio 1 favourites and other big names were introduced such as Johnnie Walker, Paul Gambaccini, Andy Peebles, Mark Lamarr, Stuart Maconie and Jools Holland. Things were on the up at Radio 2.

1999 is when further changes were afoot. Ed Stewart was 'demoted' to Sunday teatimes, replacing Pam Ayres. Steve Wright was moved to weekday afternoons, and Jonathan Ross replaced became the new host of Steve Wright's old Saturday slot. Interestingly, Jim Moir originally offered the slot to Danny Baker, as recommended by Lesley Douglas, but Baker turned Moir's offer down saying that "the time wasn't right" because he had other commitments with Talk Radio.

The trend continued at Radio 2 until December 2003 when Moir stepped down as controller. He was succeeded by Lesley Douglas in January 2004. Under Douglas's controllership, many radical and controversial changes have been made to the network.

In June 2004, Mark Radcliffe replaced Richard Allinson on late-night Radio 2. A talented broadcaster, Radcliffe's arrival proved an instant success although some listeners complained about Richard Allinson's removal, even though Richard could still be heard on Saturday afternoons..

Lesley Douglas announced in the summer of 2004 that there were going to be changes to the weekend schedule in the September of that year. Dermot O'Leary was introduced to Saturday afternoons presenting "The Saturday Club", which replaced Pick of the Pops. Elaine Paige was introduced to Sunday lunchtimes featuring a stage and screen programme. Paige replaced Desmond Carrington's All Time Greats, a programme that had been running on Sunday lunchtimes since 1981. Carrington was moved to Tuesday evenings at 7.00pm presenting "The Music Goes Round".

Another new presenter was former Jazz FM host Helen Mayhew. Helen became the new presenter of Big Band Special and also presented an overnight jazz programme on Sunday mornings, 1.00 - 4.00am. Finally, Lulu presented a new programme on Sunday afternoons featuring the best pop hits and songwriting.

These changes proved controversial and prompted listeners to lodge complaints with the BBC. Dave Barber, who was head of Radio 2 programming, responded to listeners' complaints on Radio 4's Feedback programme. Barber played down the complaints, claiming that Radio 2 had, in fact, received "positive feedback".

Since his arrival in September 2004, Dermot O'Leary has been moved to various different slots, and the format of his programme has been changed. Dermot's show was extended to a three-hour slot in April 2008, however the so-called "popularity" of this programme has yet to be revealed.

Elaine Paige, though often ridiculed by her critics in press releases and on various Internet forums, has proved a success since her arrival. Her presentation may be somewhat erratic, but she pulls in an average of 3 million weekly listeners. That is a very good achievement.

There were further changes in 2005 when Chris Evans was introduced. Initially. Chris presented two Bank Holiday Specials in May of that year. Soon afterwards, Lesley Douglas announced that Chris would joining Radio 2 permanently in the September to present a new Saturday afternoon show from 2.00 - 5.00pm.

That same year, Lulu was axed due to poor ratings and was replaced with Pick of the Pops, which had been "rested" the previous September. However, the biggest controversial decision Lesley Douglas has made, so far, happened in April 2006 when Chris Evans was promoted to Drivetime.. Scores of listeners lodged complaints about this on the former Radio 2 message board, which prompted Lesley herself to post a topic on there giving reasons behind her decision. The thread accumulated over 5,000 replies..

Johnnie Walker was demoted to Sunday teatimes in place of Ed Stewart to present a new programme with a "spiritual" feel. Again, scores of listeners complained about the axing of Ed Stewart on the former Radio 2 message board. Lesley Douglas was forced to appear on Radio 4's Feedback programme to respond to the sackful of complaints received.

Also in April 2006, Helen Mayhew was axed due to poor ratings. Clare Teal replaced her as presenter of Big Band Special, and former Virgin Radio breakfast DJ Pete Mitchell became the new voice of weekend overnights, replacing Helen's unpopular jazz programme with the usual daytime play list.

Later that year, Lesley Douglas appointed Russell Brand to Saturday nights, 9.00 - 11.00pm. Again, this proved very unpopular with the listeners, prompting scores of complaints. Listeners, who were used to Bob Harris's laid back programme on Saturday evenings, did not appreciate Brands' vulgar humour, swearing and his obscene behaviour.

January 2007 saw more controversial changes when the long-running Your Hundred Best Tunes was axed after 47 years. The presenter, Richard Baker, was also dropped from the network. Sheridan Morley was also axed as the presenter of Melodies for You and was replaced with Alan Titchmarsh. Morley was said to be "in talks" with Radio 2 to present music documentaries, however he was never to present on Radio 2 again.

Sheridan Morley died at the age of 65 in February 2007.

In April 2007, Mark Radcliffe and Stuart Maconie paired up to present a new show for weekday evenings, 8.00 - 10.00pm Monday to Thursday. The programme has proved a success since its inception, despite that only a minority of listeners complained about its introduction.

In October 2007, Michael Parkinson announced his retirement. He had presented The Sunday Supplement for 11 years. Parky presented his final show in December 2007. His successor was not announced until March 2008; it was to be Michael Ball. During the interim period, Clive Anderson, Fiona Bruce and Eamonn Holmes presented the show.

Michael Ball presents an entirely different format to that of Parky. The play list is modern and the listeners have the chance of interacting with the show. This new format did result in listeners complaining, especially about the modern play list as they were used to hearing Frank Sinatra and Ella Fitzgerald on the show as opposed to Madonna, Kylie Minogue and The Kaizer Chiefs.

As you can clearly tell, Lesley Douglas's changes to Radio 2 have been very controversial, however they have paid off. Chris Evans has proved a success on Drivetime; Russell Brand has proved a success on Saturday nights; Michael Ball has proved a success on Sunday mornings; and Elaine Paige has proved a success on Sunday lunchtimes.

The older output is gradually being marginalised. Most of the light music and easy listening programming can be heard on Friday and Sunday evenings; even Friday Night is Music Night and David Jacobs still remain, but for how much longer? These programmes have been marginalised for one reason only: they are not as popular as they used to be. It's pretty obvious that when Desmond Carrington, David Jacobs, Russell Davies, and indeed, Friday Night is Music Night call it a day, they will be replaced with modern programming.

These programmes, including The Organist Entertains, Big Band Special, Listen to the Band, and Sunday Half Hour are only still on Radio 2 because the BBC Trust has said that the network must continue to cater for music enthusiasts of this genre, otherwise they would have been axed long before now.

It is ironic that Radio 2 broadcasts Radcliffe and Maconie from Monday to Thursday nights, and Russell Brand on Saturday nights, yet Friday and Sunday nights have remained, well, boring and stagnant. How much longer can this go on for?

These conflicts between the younger and older listeners will continue for years to come, but it's the younger listeners who have already won the battle.

Fear not, my fellow comrades. The days of David Jacobs, who is sounding very unhealthy these days, are well and truly over.

Long may Radio 2 continue to evolve and flourish under Lesley Douglas.

Oh, and by the way, next week I'll be talking about Sarah Kennedy. Watch this space...

Semprini Serenade · Guest

John W · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 3367 Location: Warwickshire, UK

iwarburton · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 2133 Location: Northumberland

That's a very interesting article that you've taken the trouble to post but very one-sided, too. I don't feel that we older folk should simply have to accept continuing marginalisation. Perhaps a Radio Two and a Half for us would be a good idea.

Ian.

Semprini Serenade · Guest

The article was posted by "Carry On Doctor", who told me he's written for Media Guardian? Confused

NickSheffield · Joined: 22 Jul 2007 Posts: 508

An interesting piece but spectacularly ruined by speculating upon David Jacobs health - that was low.

As for the Sunday night programming... I find it strange how people consider that kind of 'music' unpopular when Russel Davies etc seem to play quite an eclectic mix - almost similar to Bob Dylan's progamme which is seen as cool... so go figure. It's not the music, it's the man? Maybe - but I know plenty of young people (including myself) who like to hear David Jacobs and his army of music afficianados when they get a chance. Uncool perhaps, but intensley listenable stuff.

Nick.

Angus McCoatup · Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject:

igs007 · Joined: 18 Aug 2007 Posts: 190

I'm glad others have raised suspicion at this article. It started off well, but gradually descended into a one-sided argument, ageist in places.

Sweeping statements about the success of each of Douglas' appointments is laughable; evidence, dear boy! Indeed, more 'traditional' shows may have been axed already if not for Charters and Trusts in place, but surely we should be glad such structures are in place already - they clearly aren't retrospective-looking, as we have seen with the development of R2. Besides, Commercial radio would have a field day if R2 dropped such shows and played more and more mainstream chart pop rock - it can't and won't happen.

I'll keep a longer response for another day, but in summary, the article was a narrowminded rant focused on a certain section of R2 output. Keep em coming Wink

Mark Lucas · Guest

The "article" has clearly been modified in places. Someone has a lot of time on their hands, that's all I can say.

Regarding the "game of two halves", some people have suggested that the Ross/Brand fiasco is to do with a generation difference: the older listeners found the broadcast more offensive than the younger. I have to say that after hearing Feedback on Radio 4 on Friday, quite a few of the people who phoned in complaining sounded pretty old.

Russell Brand appealed mostly to the younger audience, so why were people tuning in if they didn't like Brand?

SantaFefan · Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:31 pm Post subject:

They didn't tune in.... they complained.
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Johnnie Walker read out my message on Pirate Radio! Very Happy

13/8/07
I have heard how radio should be.

Mark Lucas · Guest

No, they jumped on the bandwagon. If they didn't hear the broadcast, how can they complain about it? That's no different to me complaining about a violent episode of EastEnders that I didn't actually watch...

gfloyd · Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:50 pm Post subject:

The BBC are always looking for feedback. Now some people are complaining because people took the trouble to tell the BBC what they thought. Rolling Eyes

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His name was ernie ........ and he drove the fastest milk cart in the west.....

SantaFefan · Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject:

well, this could go round and round for weeks about who complained and for what reasons but I look at it like an election, this was the licence payer getting a chance en-masse to say a big fat NO to the BBC bosses over several different things.

It was certainly a chance for me so I "voted" No because of the following reasons:-

I'm no prude but I believe there should be limits on what's aired by so called "brilliant" comedians. ( on TV too )

I strongly disagree with the salary paid to Jonathon Ross, the way he flaunted it and his own self centred importance.

Some of the recent TV presenters brought over to Radio 2 and the way I see it going.

Simple really.... Laughing

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Johnnie Walker read out my message on Pirate Radio! Very Happy

13/8/07
I have heard how radio should be.

John W · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 3367 Location: Warwickshire, UK

Mark Lucas · Guest

There was a guy who appeared on This Week (after Question Time, Thursday night, BBC One). Even he said that the vast majority of people who complained did so just for the sake of it. You had hundreds of people posting on internet sites that Brand, Ross and Douglas should be sacked. This immediately encourages people to jump on the bandwagon.

So, 30,000 people complained. How many of those heard the broadcast? Only two people complained the night the show was broadcast.

The whole thing has been blown out of proportion. It's no different than people who have created fan groups on Facebook to have George Lamb sacked. It's pathetic.

If you don't like, then don't tune in.

John W · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 3367 Location: Warwickshire, UK

But the BBC management agree!!!

The incident breaks the broadcasting code.

Ofcom are investigating.

Accept it.

John W

Mark Lucas · Guest

gfloyd · Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:19 pm Post subject:

nod · Joined: 24 Dec 2006 Posts: 3558

John W · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 3367 Location: Warwickshire, UK

Ofcom are involved because the Broadcasting code includes:

2.3 In applying generally accepted standards broadcasters must ensure that material which may cause offence is justified by the context ...... Such material may include, but is not limited to, offensive language, .... sex, .....humiliation, distress, violation of human dignity.......

and, recalling one part of the phone prank, they might even include this clause in their report,

2.5 Methods of suicide and self-harm must not be included in programmes except where they are editorially justified and are also justified by the context.

There was no justification for Brand/Ross to include offensive material on the messages they left.

John W

Mark Lucas · Guest

gfloyd · Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject:

Mark Lucas · Guest

Maybe this is why Lesley Douglas made such a hasty exit?