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Benefits Overhaul
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becky sharp



Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 5893

PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

littlepieces wrote:
Well it looks like i will now be able to give a first hand account of life on the dole as i have been laid off.Benefit city here i come Sad
Hope you soon find alternative employment,littlepieces.....
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Helen May



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The guy was 83 though well past working age, so I couldn't see the relevance.

H
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Helen I think some clever producer probably thought well if we can find an elderly pensioner with two major disabilities who can pass the test it will show listeners

a how ridiculous and inadequate the test is and
b how slim the chance will be of any actual younger existing claimant failing it

It did seem rather silly to me and I certainly couldn't see it happening on Radio 4
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Helen May



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pensioner himself had to mention the disabilities at the end. Having said that I know someone with one eye who could work (and drive) and many people have hearing difficulties. I think they were the only disabilities that were mentioned?

Forgive me if I'm wrong as I've never claimed anything in my life, but I would have through when you reach pension age you get your pension instead of an unable to work disability?

I did email the show to say I was a bit baffled by their choice of 'victim' to be subjected to the questions.

H
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Helen when people reach retirement age they will receive the state pension which is intended to replace other benefits but having said that I remember when I was dealing with these cases I did come across some pensioners who also received an element of Income Support on top of their pension and I think I am right in saying that any pensioner who is in receipt of Disability Living Allowance gets switched over to Attendance Allowance at the point of reaching retirement age
This is very unpopular with many of them because under DLA people can forego part of their benefit in exchange for a Motability car whereas once they retire this privilege is no longer available
The whole system is frighteningly complicated and changes so often by now I may be a bit out of touch but that's the bare bones of it
As for people who lose eyes yes they are allowed to drive
My neighbour is in that position and has to undergo a special eyesight test with the DSA every 3 years which includes a field vision test but apart from that there are no other restrictions
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Helen May



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that pensioners get income support to if their pension falls below the 'amount needed to live on' (sorry can't think of the correct name but I'm sure you know what I'm getting at).

I can't imagine an 83 year old wanting to work can you?

H
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I said it live on air in the studio with Jeremy Vine on 10/3/2005
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Helen May wrote:
I can't imagine an 83 year old wanting to work can you?


My dad is 83 and does a lot of volunteer work. If he were be paid for some of it he'd be more than happy. Would he therefore be working?

I guess it depends on what we call "work"? I sit and tap away at one of three computers in exchange for a meagre crust. That's work isn't it? I'm not sure what the definition of "work" is in this post-industrial age, so when people say they can't work as a result of a disability I do wonder what "work" they're saying they can't do because a friend of my dad's is blind and physically frail, yet he manages to undertake paid work (he vets public-sector web pages for accessibility to people with disabilities).

Are they thinking of "work" as being hard labour or something?
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Helen May



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get your point Colin, my Dad is the same age, but what I was getting at was that an 83 year old would have been pensioned off from his or her job so they would not be able to claim incapacity benefit in the first place.

That's why I could not fathom out why the JV show was using a pensioner as an example, able as the chap was.

H
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Helen May wrote:
That's why I could not fathom out why the JV show was using a pensioner as an example, able as the chap was.


I see what you mean. I didn't hear the show but it does reflect a clear shift towards the more "tabloid" standard of radio journalism on the JV show these days, I feel. It's the main reason why I no longer go out of my way to listen to it.
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littlepieces



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

becky sharp wrote:
littlepieces wrote:
Well it looks like i will now be able to give a first hand account of life on the dole as i have been laid off.Benefit city here i come Sad
Hope you soon find alternative employment,littlepieces.....


Thanks Becky Smile
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Rachel
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

littlepieces wrote:
Well it looks like i will now be able to give a first hand account of life on the dole as i have been laid off.Benefit city here i come Sad


Oh poor old you Crying or Very sad What job did/do you do? Don't get too down about it though- I don't think you get any benefits for months. Sometimes losing a job can be the making of you. Follow my great grandma's advice- do what you're good at.
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ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to clarify Helen an 83 year old would not be entitled to claim Disability Living Allowance as this stops at retirement age but he might be able to claim Attendance Allowance which is in effect the pensioner equivalent
He would have to satisfy a threshold that he needed a certain level and frequency of care but if he was already receiving DLA at the date of retirement it is very likely that he would be transferred over without the need for further medical evidence
Once on Attendance Allowance few people come off it although they do have to undergo occasional checks but obviously as they get older generally their health deteriorates rather than improves so it gets very hard to remove the benefit
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Helen May



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Ruddles!

He sounded well able to take care of himself, I was surprised when he gave his age!

H

PS Sorry to hear your news littlepieces. I hope you find something else soon.
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rachel wrote:
Follow my great grandma's advice- do what you're good at.


How right she is!

My hobby is the means by which I earn my living - and I couldn't imagine it any other way.

Littlepieces - sorry to hear of your new-found status as one of Cameron's statistics ("We're all in this together" - yeah right) but having been down that road myself as a result of being a "Thatcher statistic" all I can say is perceive it as an opportunity rather than a setback. In order, seek to do your own thing and stuff the lot of 'em!!! Smile
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littlepieces



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your kind words everybody.
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mark occomore



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's an 83 year old pensioner. He's not claming Incapacity Benefit, so true what was the point. They should have got someone who had a disability to take the test. At the end of the day, your GP is the one who knows what the problem is.
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You hit the nail on the head there Mark when you said it is the GP who knows the true position best
The problem is that as I understand it the Government is not planning to consult the claimant's GP at all when they begin reassessing these cases which is bound to result in genuine people losing benefits or having to go through a stressful appeals procedure
I've been a Conservative voter all my life and I can tell you that even Margaret Thatcher stopped short of what is going on now - very wisely in my view
This exercise has very little to do with anything other than saving money
There are numerous other ways where savings could be made and only today a report said that the Government is spending millions of pounds paying rents on unused buildings and not fully using its buying power to secure the best deals
They should first look at these areas before attacking the most vulnerable members of society otherwise after the next election they will be out of power for a generation
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Helen May



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think you would have needed a GP to answer the questions that they asked today though. How many times have GPs given sick notes when they haven't been needed?

H
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Helen that's a very fair point
The problem is from a legal point of view GP's are considered experts whilst the rest of us including ordinary Benefits Agency staff are not
Of course if GPs are not going to be consulted in the forthcoming review then they will never be put in the position where they have to independently justify their previous actions so there will be no incentive for them to stop behaving in the same way
This whole subject is fraught with problems and it really needs gradual and thought out reform rather than knee jerk and rushed action which is what we seem to be getting
After all we all recall how the Dangerous Dogs Act was rushed through in the 1990's and the numerous anomolies and loopholes it created
In my experience panic or hurried action is not generally a good thing in the long term in these areas
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:
I've been a Conservative voter all my life and I can tell you that even Margaret Thatcher stopped short of what is going on now - very wisely in my view


Largely because the trade unions were still capable of defining the limits so she didn't dare try and do what these prats are trying to get away with now. They want to dismantle the welfare state and this is the best chance they'll ever get.

Still, there's hope yet. We may yet see the tipping point - a sort of modern-day "poll tax" revolt. Let's hope so.
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Colin I actually agree with you
Whatever people thought of Margaret Thatcher you could never accuse her of being stupid
The present lot are heading for disaster unless they modify their hastily produced policies very quickly
I was told by an insider in the Conservative Party that whoever won the recent election might be in power for 5 years but would then be out of power for 30 years as they would have to take such unpopular actions to reign in the deficit
In a way I wish Labour had won but as I may have said in earlier posts had David Davies been in charge I think we would have seen a very different approach as he was brought up in a working class family living in a council house and he is in touch with real people
The Tory Party chose the wrong leader!
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the ones which don't try to get a job after three attempts could lose their job seekers allowance. They will be able to claim a hard ship benefit for 40. This still dosn't resolve the issue. These people will be able to continue to get housing benefit etc.

I think also asking someone to litter pick isn't really given the person an ascentive to find a job. They need to have a job which they will enjoy, not a stepping stone to the next job.
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Clive55



Joined: 08 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:
Helen that's a very fair point
The problem is from a legal point of view GP's are considered experts whilst the rest of us including ordinary Benefits Agency staff are not
Of course if GPs are not going to be consulted in the forthcoming review then they will never be put in the position where they have to independently justify their previous actions so there will be no incentive for them to stop behaving in the same way
This whole subject is fraught with problems and it really needs gradual and thought out reform rather than knee jerk and rushed action which is what we seem to be getting
After all we all recall how the Dangerous Dogs Act was rushed through in the 1990's and the numerous anomolies and loopholes it created
In my experience panic or hurried action is not generally a good thing in the long term in these areas

The Panels who decide these things are pretty useless. In my last job there were some claimnents who lost their ESA because the poanels decided they were fit to work when they were not. I appealed & they got their ESA re instated.
There was another client i was sure WAS fully able to work- but the panel never questioned his elegibility to ESA. Even his Psychiatrist doubted that he hads genuine mental health issues
It shows how clueless these panels are
Sadly the GP or Psychiatrists do not have a say in these tin pot panels.
This process had already begun under Labour but will no doubt get alot worse now.
As to this lot & Thatcher- I much prefer Thatcher. She was an inteligent polotician tho I disagreed with much of her polotics
The dumbos in charge now are a bad joke
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undiscovered



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well now it's three strikes and your out.

I think there seems to be cross party support for this as long as the detail is correct.
I am just waiting for the news of poeple being offered unrealistic jobs in other parts of the country for not very much so when refused on reasonable grounds is taken against them.

The main problem I have is the lack of work out there. This scheme will only work if jobs are out there.
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Government are considering to cut DLA. The Cuts to Disability Living Allowance could breach human rights. The Government are considering to change it with a new personal independance allownace. This would mean more assessment tests for claiments.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12141725
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undiscovered



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well Stephen Hawkins has a job so why can't the rest of them Rolling Eyes


He'll look pretty foolish if he gets slapped by human rights laws. They are going for the wrong poeple in this case, they should be closing loopholes in the tax system and getting the 15bn they should be getting though hmrc. Link but that is not going to happen so taking off those that need have risen to the top of the list of targets
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