R2OK!

mark occomore · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK

Mystery surrounding the missing Malaysian airline is now focusing on a widen search. Malaysia Airlines flight carrying 239 people from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing went missing early Saturday.

http://news.sky.com/story/1223758/malaysia-airlines-plane-what-has-happened

Colin · Joined: 26 Sep 2013 Posts: 916

Mark, you're very late filing this so you've been sacked! Smile

becky sharp · Joined: 01 Dec 2008 Posts: 6814

What a complete mystery this is!

It has all the experts scratching their collective heads

ruddlescat · Joined: 16 Sep 2010 Posts: 18010 Location: Near Chester

Does anyone really care - personally I'm sick of hearing about it - it's just getting boring after so much saturation media coverage Sad

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Lord Evan Elpuss · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 3415 Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land

And it will remain a mystery until they recover the aircraft flight recorder(s) But of course, to do that, they'll have to locate the aircraft's remains. Assuming that it has crashed. I do hope they find something in the not too distant future, so that those who are fearful of what's happend to the passengers & crew on board that aircraft can finally know. Sadly, I fear it may take time, just like the similar Air France incident of a few years ago.
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becky sharp · Joined: 01 Dec 2008 Posts: 6814

ruddlescat · Joined: 16 Sep 2010 Posts: 18010 Location: Near Chester

There's a simple lesson here - if you don't want to die don't fly

The world would be a much better place in my view if people put rather more into staying local and supporting their local community rather than wishing to jet away to infiltrate other cultures with which they usually have little in common

I'm afraid I can't feel a great degree of sympathy for people who ought to realise that boarding any aircraft is a highly risky business Rolling Eyes

In fact -and I promise I had no inside knowledge of this - this exact topic is being discussed on Newsnight right now Shocked

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unclebuck · Joined: 19 Apr 2010 Posts: 276 Location: Warwickshire

Helen May · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 19334 Location: Cheshire

These stories about the crew aren't helping. It's becoming more bizarre by the day.

I fly but I don't really enjoy it, even though I worked for airlines for many years.

H
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88 - 91 FM this is Radio 2 from the BBC!

I said it live on air in the studio with Jeremy Vine on 10/3/2005

Colin · Joined: 26 Sep 2013 Posts: 916

essexlady · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 348 Location: Essex

Well Ruddlescat, does that mean that if I don't fly I won't die, EVER?

Sadly Essex doesn't have many sunny, sandy beaches or warm seas so I guess I'll carry on flying to places that do have those things.

Seriously, I believe that flying is still the safest means of transport.

Helen May · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 19334 Location: Cheshire

You're right essexlady, it's just every now and then I get a real phobia and have to psych myself up beforehand. Once I've done the first leg (which is usually down to London) I'm okay.
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88 - 91 FM this is Radio 2 from the BBC!

I said it live on air in the studio with Jeremy Vine on 10/3/2005

Colin · Joined: 26 Sep 2013 Posts: 916

Lord Evan Elpuss · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 3415 Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land

Schizoidman · Joined: 20 Sep 2010 Posts: 1140 Location: Rural West Sussex

Oscar Wilde I think.

Ruddles, to be fair, I think most of the passengers were Chinese simply returning to their homeland.

Toggy · Joined: 18 Aug 2008 Posts: 1239

I would suggest that nobody drives, walks, cycles, motorcycles or takes a train or boat to anywhere at all.
Much better to stay indoors with all the windows and doors locked. Keep the curtains closed and never look at at anything ever again just in case you see something dangerous.

PS: I hate flying and try to avoid it at all costs but it'll never stop me going anywhere I want to.

ruddlescat · Joined: 16 Sep 2010 Posts: 18010 Location: Near Chester

Sorry folks but perhaps I put over the point I was trying to make in a fairly muddled way

What I am saying is that flying by definition is a highly dangerous process - if your plane crashes it's almost certain to be fatal - and there are other serious risks like the possibility of Deep Veined Thrombosis which results from sitting in cramped aircraft seats for hours on end - I'm presently recovering from a broken ankle and for two months while I was in plaster I had to inject myself with Wulfrin - a drug designed to thin the blood in order to avoid the risk of blood clots - which is exactly what people risk on a daily basis on long haul flights

You simply can't compare air travel with alternative methods of getting about because if you crash in a car or sink in a boat you have a chance of survival and trains run on railway lines unlike aircraft which fly in the skies being entirely dependant on the skill of the pilot so you cut down the risk of death by adopting less risky options

I realise that certain people have to fly for business and other reasons but what I am trying to say is that I simply don't understand why anyone would choose to fly if they don't have to

Brits regularly jet off to places abroad without apparently realising that our own country has some of the most interesting scenery and features in the world so why take the risk of dying by getting on a plane - and I'm sure the same applies to those Chinese passengers on the 'disappeared' plane - after all China is a massive lcountry with very varied landscape so why would its citizens feel the need to go anywhere else Confused

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Lord Evan Elpuss · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 3415 Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land

On the contrary, driving is far more risky than flying due to the ammount of other traffic of all shapes & sizes sharing the road with the vehicle you are in. There is much more scope for collision on the road than in the air. It doesnt necessarily follow that a plane crash has to be fatal any more than a car crash. Two examples of airliner incidents that were not fatal. One was back in the early 2000s when a Canadian airliner had suffered a double engine failure and the flight crew managed to land the aircraft successfuly at an airport in the azores. Yes, the aircraft became a berluddy big glider! It didn't 'drop like a stone' out of the sky. That aircraft was repaired and flew again. The other was the British Airways 777 that did crash land at Heathrow in the latter 2000s, that aircraft was written off, but no passengers or crew were lost. Yes, some plane crashes are fatal, others where some souls are lost while others survive, but that happens in car accidents and those involving other forms of transport as well. No form of travel is without risk. Flying is no more dangerous than driving (be that a car or train) or sailing, oh & doesn't driving a road vehicle of any sort, or a train require skill, just like sailing. They may be different skills to flying a plane, but skill none the less is still needed.
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Colin · Joined: 26 Sep 2013 Posts: 916

ruddlescat · Joined: 16 Sep 2010 Posts: 18010 Location: Near Chester

Whilst I hear what you're saying with respect you're rather missing my point

Yes statistically air travel may be the safest form of travel but if you're unlucky enough to have a major problem then it's almost certain to be fatal whereas with car train or boat travel in the case of an accident at least you have a chance of survival

Personally I'd much rather have a 1% chance of being involved in a survivable accident than have a 0.1% chance of being involved in a crash which is almost certain to end my life - it's not exactly rocket science Smile

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becky sharp · Joined: 01 Dec 2008 Posts: 6814

Colin · Joined: 26 Sep 2013 Posts: 916

Ruddles - be very careful when you get out of bed in the morning lest you should trip over, whack your head on a piece of furniture and die of a brain injury. In fact, it's probably best to err on the side of caution by never getting out of bed in the morning ever again!

Lord Evan Elpuss · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 3415 Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land

mark occomore · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK

Satellites picked up 'electronic ping' from Malaysia Airlines flight after it lost contact which did not contain maintenance data. Plus Rolls Royce picked up some information from the engines.

Colin · Joined: 26 Sep 2013 Posts: 916

ruddlescat · Joined: 16 Sep 2010 Posts: 18010 Location: Near Chester

It's all down to risk assessment - insurers do it every day - and of course life is risky - but my point is why increase the risk of dying in a plane crash for people who don't have to?

Crossing the road can be risky but for example if an OAP needs to cross the road to get to the Post Office to collect their pension then that's probably a risk worth taking as otherwise they might die of lack of the ability to purchase food

But if they chose to have a week in Spain in order to avoid the damp British winter climate then it's entirely their own fault if they end up dead in a plane crash because quite simply there's no need for the trip and the same could be said about the unfortunate Chinese passengers on the alleged missing plane Sad

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Colin · Joined: 26 Sep 2013 Posts: 916

Risk Assessment: "Shall I get out of bed this morning? Nah. I'll have a lie-in."

Then the house is consumed by a sink-hole!

ruddlescat · Joined: 16 Sep 2010 Posts: 18010 Location: Near Chester

All human beings do risk assessment every day Colin

You make it sound like some kind of politically correct philosophy

It's quite simple - you take risks when the odds are in your favour but not when the odds are against you - rather like betting on horses - and considering that I've won almost £1000 pounds at Cheltenham so far this week I do think I have some reasonable knowledge on this subject and it's not down to some superhuman power - it's a simple question of assessing odds:)
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Schizoidman · Joined: 20 Sep 2010 Posts: 1140 Location: Rural West Sussex

Becky. you're right, it was Benjamin Franklin who came up with the death and taxes quote Embarassed

Ruddles, how else were the Chinese passengers going to return to China? It's a long walk from Malaysia.

ruddlescat · Joined: 16 Sep 2010 Posts: 18010 Location: Near Chester

They took the risk in flying there in the first place Schiz - so if they can't now get back - that's a rather bad risk - or there again perhaps they simply didn't think about the risks which should have been obvious to anyone with even half a brain Smile

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Toggy · Joined: 18 Aug 2008 Posts: 1239

oldraver · Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 1175 Location: London

On my first ever flight, about 1979, we flew into the worst storm Majorca had experienced for 20 years or so. Lightning hit the plane, heavy turbulence - quite a bumpy ride. I wasn't worried though, partly because of ignorance, which always comes in useful, and partly because it was mid-morning and I had taken advantage of the duty free.

I read this thread a few days ago, and had intended to say ( I still am!) that what I didn't understand, was mutli-millionaires taking helicopter rides everywhere, as if I had all that cash, I'd be minimising risks to life. I was thinking of the ex Chelsea chairman, Matthew Harding, and it's a view that I've held since his accident. Then, the events in Gillingham, Norfolk happened.
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Helen May · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 19334 Location: Cheshire

I'd never willingly go in a helicopter Raver, and I'm glad my O/H had the chance of flying in one many years ago and got it out of his system. He loves flying.......

H
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88 - 91 FM this is Radio 2 from the BBC!

I said it live on air in the studio with Jeremy Vine on 10/3/2005

oldraver · Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 1175 Location: London

Funny thing is H, I'd love to go on one, just the once, for the views. But there are an awful lot of helicopters lately, that seem to have faults.

Like your OH, I used to love flying, but my arms used to ache something terrible.

The sound you now hear, is Tommy Cooper, spinning in his grave...
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Helen May · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 19334 Location: Cheshire

becky sharp · Joined: 01 Dec 2008 Posts: 6814

Helen May · Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 19334 Location: Cheshire

No country is going to say that they could have picked it up on their radar are they, as of course they aren't supposed to be able to.

H
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88 - 91 FM this is Radio 2 from the BBC!

I said it live on air in the studio with Jeremy Vine on 10/3/2005

mark occomore · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK

If the aircraft was able to stay in the air for the further 6 hours worth of fuel and landed somewhere like Kazakhstan then there would be demands issued now. Why would someone want a commercial airline with 200+ passengers on broad, unless they were all executed? Obviously all the theorists are coming out to what might or might not have happened.

http://news.sky.com/story/1226362/deliberate-action-diverted-missing-plane

mark occomore · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK

The authorities are now looking a stretch of 28 million square miles across 11 countries for the aircraft, which could possibly be either on land or in the water now.

Colin · Joined: 26 Sep 2013 Posts: 916