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Minx



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take your point Ron, though what worries me is the vast amount of really good music from a certain era, from say the thirties onwards, which is not getting an airing these days apart from with good old MC Desmo. These songs are not even from my era, but my parents and grandparents used to sing along to them and they're as much a part of my musical heritage as theirs.

Just as I remember them because they formed part of my childhood, today's kids are only ever going to remember the frankly crappy, poppy rubbish that R2 is churning out. They're being denied access to some great music. Good music didn't only start when the Beatles did, but you could forgive some kids for thinking that, because that's what constitutes history for them.
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Helen May



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Minx wrote:
Just as I remember them because they formed part of my childhood, today's kids are only ever going to remember the frankly crappy, poppy rubbish that R2 is churning out. They're being denied access to some great music. Good music didn't only start when the Beatles did, but you could forgive some kids for thinking that, because that's what constitutes history for them.


Totally agree Minx.

Last night on University Challenge non of the 8 contestants knew who was singing on John Lennon's 'Starting Over'.....................

IMHO what needs to happen is that Radio 1 is made to cater for an older age group than it presently does instead of leaving Radio 2 trying to please the vast majority of the population. From what I can gather the young don't listen to radio the way 'our' generation (I use that loosely as well) do anyway so why 90% of the stations play the rubbish they do is beyond me.

H
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MadeinSurrey



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Minx and Helen, you are both so right! I was flabbergasted by that Uni Challenge question, H - or rather by the complete lack of knowledge.
It doesn't augur well - we need a decent radio station playing quality artists. When do we ever get to hear Ella, Frank, Bing, etc these days?
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undiscovered



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Helen May wrote:
Last night on University Challenge non of the 8 contestants knew who was singing on John Lennon's 'Starting Over'.....................

IMHO what needs to happen is that Radio 1 is made to cater for an older age group than it presently does instead of leaving Radio 2 trying to please the vast majority of the population. From what I can gather the young don't listen to radio the way 'our' generation (I use that loosely as well) do anyway so why 90% of the stations play the rubbish they do is beyond me.

H


It's rubbish that they like, why should they have had to have heard Starting over by JL, he died long before most of them were born, he died 30 years ago, these kids are 18 they weren't born til 1992? (yes I know scarey)
We as the older generation are supposed to moan about what the kids listen to it's our job. The Beatles are slowly losing their relavence as are other bands of that time Embarassed
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kengeo



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just Like Starting Over was not one of Lennon's best efforts, and was on its way out of the charts just prior to his death, this sad event reversed its fortunes and it shot to number one.

I have to agree with the previous poster, when I was 18 my head was full of The Sex Pistols, Blondie, The Jam, The Police, Elvis Costello and the Undertones etc. If I was asked a question about Bill Haley, Michael Holiday, Adam Faith or even Elvis Preseley I probably wouldn't of had a clue. Even then the Beatles had more or less passed me by.

Only in later life have I gained a desire for more knowledge interest from across all genres.

I have to say that Radio One DJ's back then had more musical knowledge than our current presenters and whetted my appetite for music.

Of the current bunch only Radcliffe and Maconie can do this.
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Helen May



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

undiscovered wrote:
Helen May wrote:
Last night on University Challenge non of the 8 contestants knew who was singing on John Lennon's 'Starting Over'.....................

IMHO what needs to happen is that Radio 1 is made to cater for an older age group than it presently does instead of leaving Radio 2 trying to please the vast majority of the population. From what I can gather the young don't listen to radio the way 'our' generation (I use that loosely as well) do anyway so why 90% of the stations play the rubbish they do is beyond me.

H


It's rubbish that they like, why should they have had to have heard Starting over by JL, he died long before most of them were born, he died 30 years ago, these kids are 18 they weren't born til 1992? (yes I know scarey)
We as the older generation are supposed to moan about what the kids listen to it's our job. The Beatles are slowly losing their relavence as are other bands of that time Embarassed


undiscovered

Are saying that by the same token they wouldn't recognise Elvis either? It's called a wide education but of course we all know they don't get that these days!

H
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undiscovered



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Are saying that by the same token they wouldn't recognise Elvis either?


maybe not

It's the age they are at, I feel fortunate to be into my music so I have come across a lot of bands that were around before I was born, and I am sure that there are the likes of me in the younger generation out there but look at the music industry nowadays it's ALL about sales. I know it used to be to a certain extent but not like it is now.
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Clive55



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RockitRon wrote:
We've discussed this before. Saga also filled the gap, such as it is.

Neither Saga nor Melody were commercially viable.

Would the vast majority of licence-payers be happy if the BBC spent money on a "Radio 2 Extra" for the small audience which listened to them?

If they devoted the resources they waste on 1XTRA that would be a good thing. 1XTRA duplicates what KISS & loads of other stations do.
Divert those resources to cater to an audience not catered for.
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jimmy mac



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The contestant on Popmaster this morning correctly named 3 Temptations hits in 3 in 10 but still lost but he was also well out of time on the Deacon Blue question so it should have been a draw...so the guy lost but should have won but since it was a draw he could have won ....or lost...total confusion...sums the show up really


jim
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Clive55



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimmy mac wrote:
The contestant on Popmaster this morning correctly named 3 Temptations hits in 3 in 10 but still lost but he was also well out of time on the Deacon Blue question so it should have been a draw...so the guy lost but should have won but since it was a draw he could have won ....or lost...total confusion...sums the show up really


jim

I didn't think so. I thought it all went very smoothly. and no wildly fluctuating vocal tones! Cool
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Helen May



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clive55 wrote:
no wildly fluctuating vocal tones! Cool


So that is more important than the content?

H
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Clive55



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Helen May wrote:
Clive55 wrote:
no wildly fluctuating vocal tones! Cool


So that is more important than the content?

H

Actually, I returned to Kens show last week & have been enjoying it. I like the format of the show. But I personally prefer Zoe's presentation style.
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry but I think its quite ridiculous and indeed worrying that 4 so called intelligent 18 year olds at one of out top Universities not only could not recognise the John Lennon extract played but also none of the others either
There are often contestants on Popmaster in their thirties who are quite capable of answering questions on sixties music so age is no excuse
When I was at university in the seventies it was an experience in education for life not just the subject being studied
What on earth is wrong with these people? Is it the level of their student loans which is dulling their intelligence
Its just as well they didn't get asked any questions on Beethoven or Handel otherwise it could have been even more embarrasing
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Schizoidman



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not so sure I agree with you, Ruddles. After all, as a previous post has said, why should a 20 year old recognise that song, which was recorded ten years before he/she was born?
If, as you rightly say, University should be a lesson in life (eg pop culture) and not just academic subjects then surely they would be experts on today's charts whereas we are not.
And similarly an 80 year old would not have recognised the Lennon song either (which is bloody awful anyway). Each generation to it's own.

I get more worried when these supposedly intelligent students don't recognise a painting by Turner or Goya.

And getting back to Popmaster today, the bloke said 'it's not Deacon Blue'. Zoe then coughed as if to say 'yes it is', and he changed his mind and got his three points. A bit unfair I thought.
And didn't the contestant correctly give three Temptations hits, before Zoe said he'd only got two? I may be wrong as I was only half listening.
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Clive55



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:
I'm sorry but I think its quite ridiculous and indeed worrying that 4 so called intelligent 18 year olds at one of out top Universities not only could not recognise the John Lennon extract played but also none of the others either
There are often contestants on Popmaster in their thirties who are quite capable of answering questions on sixties music so age is no excuse
When I was at university in the seventies it was an experience in education for life not just the subject being studied
What on earth is wrong with these people? Is it the level of their student loans which is dulling their intelligence
Its just as well they didn't get asked any questions on Beethoven or Handel otherwise it could have been even more embarrasing

I agree. Ella Fitzgerald, Louis armstrong & Al Jolson & many of the other greats were before my time, but I knew their music.
Gershwin was a composer from way back but I was familiar with his music.
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Clive55



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If these students couldn't recognise Elvis i rekon they should not pass their degrees
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Ally Gory



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't accept a comparison between Popmaster and University Challenge has any validity whatsoever. Although some contestants only seem to have a go so they can say hello to their relatives, most are on Popmaster because they have an interest in music and want to test that specific knowledge. University Challenge is wholly different in the wide range of subjects questions can be selected from and the contestants are just as likely to need to identify Chaos Theory or Debussy as Lennon or Ian Dury.
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undiscovered



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
University Challenge is wholly different in the wide range of subjects questions can be selected from and the contestants are just as likely to need to identify Chaos Theory or Debussy as Lennon or Ian Dury

Also bear in mind that the average student on university challenge are not what we would call average students they are the more academic ones, as those kind of subjects come up more than pop culture.
I think we are too hard on these kids. You only come across older stuff if you get into music. I think it's more to do with inverted Beatles snobbery "you must know of the Beatles"
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Minx



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In defence of these students, I would say that I heard the track but although I recognised it (obviously Laughing ) I didn't think that the few bars I heard sounded like Lennon, so I was concentrating on thinking on who else could have recorded it successfully.

I knew all the others though. Wink
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heard Chris hand over between Zoe and him this morning ( Wednesday ). He mentioned about Popmaster, then 10 minutes through the show Zoe mentioned she had a written T&C how to run popmaster from her producer. It tells her how many points for each question. It obviously was a little tongue and cheek, someone has been reading these message boards. Laughing
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Clive55



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What does get me is when you get contestants on Pop Master & they have no idea on a question & they say "Not my era!". One guy said that more than once! Really annoys me. If they go on popmaster, they need to have some knowledge of Pop music across the decades
I wouldn't diss anyone for doing badly on it. I'm sure my mind would go blank on it or I would get all the "wrong" questions. But using the "Not my era" excuse is a bit lame! Surprised
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Cherskiy



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't get many (any?) of the 1960s questions correct as it's "not my era" - for some reason I've never particularly clicked with anything from that decade - apologies to everyone (Hi Helen!) who likes SOTS.*

20 year olds not knowing "Starting Over"? I was 20 in 1986. I suspect I would have been hard pressed to answer questions on early 1970s music back then. My musical interest only really started when I was about 12 or so, and didn't develop into the more eclectic style it is now until I reached 25 or so. I'm digging out more and more 1970s music and popping it onto my iPod through listening to R2 and for that I'm grateful, in addition to the contemporary stuff that Bob promotes.

* Of course, if anyone cares to supply me with a list of say 10 must-listen-to tracks from the 60s, I'll happily give it a whirl....

Cheers,

Cherskiy
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undiscovered



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cherskiy wrote:
* Of course, if anyone cares to supply me with a list of say 10 must-listen-to tracks from the 60s, I'll happily give it a whirl....

Cheers,

Cherskiy


Sorry not my era Wink
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cherskiy wrote:
* Of course, if anyone cares to supply me with a list of say 10 must-listen-to tracks from the 60s, I'll happily give it a whirl....

Cheers,

Cherskiy


Given that the 60s is the era with which I can most easily identify, that should be an easy task. Unfortunately it's so difficult because of the high volume of brilliant, innovative and exciting music that was produced in that period!

I'm afraid my Top 10 might end up being a Top 100.
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Clive55



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ColinB wrote:
Cherskiy wrote:
* Of course, if anyone cares to supply me with a list of say 10 must-listen-to tracks from the 60s, I'll happily give it a whirl....

Cheers,

Cherskiy


Given that the 60s is the era with which I can most easily identify, that should be an easy task. Unfortunately it's so difficult because of the high volume of brilliant, innovative and exciting music that was produced in that period!

I'm afraid my Top 10 might end up being a Top 100.

Since Oasis were a Beatles Tribute act, would they qualify asa being sixtees?? Surprised
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Helen May



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cherskiy wrote:
I wouldn't get many (any?) of the 1960s questions correct as it's "not my era" - for some reason I've never particularly clicked with anything from that decade - apologies to everyone (Hi Helen!) who likes SOTS.*

20 year olds not knowing "Starting Over"? I was 20 in 1986. I suspect I would have been hard pressed to answer questions on early 1970s music back then. My musical interest only really started when I was about 12 or so, and didn't develop into the more eclectic style it is now until I reached 25 or so. I'm digging out more and more 1970s music and popping it onto my iPod through listening to R2 and for that I'm grateful, in addition to the contemporary stuff that Bob promotes.

* Of course, if anyone cares to supply me with a list of say 10 must-listen-to tracks from the 60s, I'll happily give it a whirl....

Cheers,

Cherskiy


Hi Cherskiy

As Colin says a selection of 10 is very difficult, it would depend on what mood I was in at the time!

Just to clarify, it wasn't the name of the song that the students were asked to identify, only the voice, for the starter question which was John Lennon.

H
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Schizoidman



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cherskiy: the trouble with listening to SOTS (which I enjoy) is that it concentrates too much on the early 60s. The presenter and producer seem stuck in a pre 1963 time warp when much of the music wasn't that good. Anyone listening would think it was all about obscure B-sides by Frank Ifield and Del Shannon.

So to balance things up, here is my list of ten 60s songs which sum up the decade for me (not my favourites, just good songs) and which you really should hear:

Jimmy Mack--Martha And The Vandellas
All Day And All Of The Night--Kinks
Like A Rolling Stone--Bob Dylan
Good Vibrations--Beach Boys
Shapes Of Things--Yardbirds
Going Back--Dusty Springfield
All Or Nothing--Small Faces
White Room--Cream
Jesamine--Casuals
You Can't Always Get What You Want (album version)--Rolling Stones

I can't imagine Ken Bruce playing those (not camp enough).
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RockitRon



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He has played the Stones - very recently - as the long track after Popmaster.

Phil Swern concentrates less on the pre-Beatles era than his predecessor. On Saturday at least 14 of the 34 tracks dated from 1966 onwards
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Blondehedgehog



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never mind pop master.......Get that woman off Kens show...... Rolling Eyes I thought it was a mums net meeting as I caught a slice of it in the car this moring......the womans dreadful.................she cant stop chatting about her children
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schizoidman wrote:
Jimmy Mack--Martha And The Vandellas
All Day And All Of The Night--Kinks
Like A Rolling Stone--Bob Dylan
Good Vibrations--Beach Boys
Shapes Of Things--Yardbirds
Going Back--Dusty Springfield
All Or Nothing--Small Faces
White Room--Cream
Jesamine--Casuals
You Can't Always Get What You Want (album version)--Rolling Stones


Wow, that's some list - and not that far from what mine would be if I could get off my arse and compose one! Smile

For me, at least one - probably 10 - Beatles numbers would have to be included, and I'd opt for Mr. Tambourine Man from Mr. Zimmerman. For the Beach Boys it might be "In My Room" (perfect harmonies), too.

However, as for your last choice, you've chosen my favourite Stones number, too. I remember seeing them perform an elongated version of this at Knebworth in '76 and I've been sold on it ever since. My 26-year-old son absolutely loves Let It Bleed, the album from which it's taken. (Gotta be played loud, of course).

So, that gets me out of compiling my Top 10 does it not?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blondehedgehog wrote:
Never mind pop master.......Get that woman off Kens show...... Rolling Eyes I thought it was a mums net meeting as I caught a slice of it in the car this moring......the womans dreadful.................she cant stop chatting about her children


See my thread on this very subject,

http://r2ok.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?t=5543

I simply haven't bothered tuning into R2 at all this week, which is a great shame; fortunately I had two days off work so in-truck entertainment wasn't a priority. I'm not at all surprised though that the Babbling Ball hasn't changed. Sad
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Clive55



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zoe Ball has been an absolute ball!! Excelent show Cool A bit disapointing cheesy Ken is back next week, but I will still tune in
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Helen May



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gnasty Gnome wrote:
I simply haven't bothered tuning into R2 at all this week, which is a great shame Sad


I haven't either! It's been like having a holiday, have quite enjoyed the break.

H
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clive55 wrote:
Zoe Ball has been an absolute ball!! Excelent show Cool A bit disapointing cheesy Ken is back next week, but I will still tune in

That seems like a contradiction! Out of those two, Zoe seems more cheesy than Ken to me!
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Blondehedgehog



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clive55 wrote:
Zoe Ball has been an absolute ball!! Excelent show Cool A bit disapointing cheesy Ken is back next week, but I will still tune in



So you like hearing about her family and children.........there are other places she could be more useful ...not radio 2 in the morning
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

She loves her husband and wants to tell the nation. It's like Sir Elton John loves flowers, when he told a court many years ago over his expenses.
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Blondehedgehog



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Schizoidman



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Colin: I agree, In My Room is a fabulous song, great tune and harmonies.

And as for the sublime Let It Bleed album, that represents the band at their height in 1969. My vinyl copy says on the inner sleeve 'this record should be played loud'.
Incidentally there was a very good interview with Keef about his autobiog on BBC2 this evening.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
She loves her husband and wants to tell the nation.


So she might, but does "the nation" wish to hear it again...and again...and again.... and.............

Not really.

Still, I'm out of the habit of listening to R2 daytimes any more. Well, as soon as the appalling Evans opens his gob at 6.30am anyhow.

In fact - Zoe who?

Rolling Eyes
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Cherskiy



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schizoidman wrote:
here is my list of ten 60s songs which sum up the decade for me (not my favourites, just good songs) and which you really should hear:

Jimmy Mack--Martha And The Vandellas
All Day And All Of The Night--Kinks
Like A Rolling Stone--Bob Dylan
Good Vibrations--Beach Boys
Shapes Of Things--Yardbirds
Going Back--Dusty Springfield
All Or Nothing--Small Faces
White Room--Cream
Jesamine--Casuals
You Can't Always Get What You Want (album version)--Rolling Stones



Thanks for these - I know four of the songs (Martha, Kinks, Beach Boys and Small Faces) and will look up the others this weekend. I have heard of all of the bands/artists apart from Casuals.
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