R2OK!

mark occomore · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK

!!!!!!!!!!!

ColinB · Guest

ruddlescat · Joined: 16 Sep 2010 Posts: 18010 Location: Near Chester

Mark I just cannot believe you would make such a stupid and patently ridiculous comment

In this country nobody is guilty of any offence unless they have been charged and convicted by a court and even then we have an appeals system in place in order to ensure that wrong jury decisions can be reviewed by professional judges

I do agree that the death penalty should be brought back for certain categories of murder including terrorist crimes and those where guilt is admitted but you cannot on any reasonable basis justify it for certain types of murder including what are often called crimes of passion which are unpremeditated

There is also a seperate issue that every person charged is entitled to a fair trial and often this can be prejudiced by articles written in newspapers and comments on other public fora including this one

As an experienced lawyer who knows quite a lot more about this subject than you I would respectfully suggest that you withdraw your initial comments and await the outcome of whatever things may happen in the future
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ColinB · Guest

ruddlescat · Joined: 16 Sep 2010 Posts: 18010 Location: Near Chester

A proper and fairly balanced legal system is necessarily the cornerstone of any society which claims to call itself a democracy and that is one reason why I was so strongly opposed to the actions of the previous Blair Government which tried to systematically erode out proper legal system by such steps as removing Legal Aid availability in many areas of basic need and trying to restrict the availability of jury trial in certain cases

It remains to be seen whether the present Government will continue down this dangerous path but so far to me the signs are not looking good

I just hope that if the present Coalition falls apart as I think it may we can then get someone like David Davies in charge who is a man who believes in real democracy rather than the Big Brother state we now have and was prepared to give up an almost certain future Cabinet position rather than compromise his views for the sake of political expediency and he had the guts to vote against the recent rise in student tuition fees which I hope people will remember for the future
Sorry to blabber on but this is a subject I feel very strongly about
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ColinB · Guest

On the latter point, I do agree with you. Although I have never been (nor ever will be) a supporter of the Conservative Party, I do feel that David Davies would have made a better leader - and might do yet once people realise just what a prize prat Cameron is!

becky sharp · Joined: 01 Dec 2008 Posts: 6815

ruddlescat · Joined: 16 Sep 2010 Posts: 18010 Location: Near Chester

Very true Becky and interestingly I notice that the Hanratty case is back in the news today as his family are again asking for a review even though he was hanged almost 50 years ago

If someone believes a serious miscarriage of justice has occured they should never give up fighting and should never have unreasonable obstructions placed in their way by the state which prevent them from doing so

I was more thinking of cases where offenders boast about murders they have committed including the case of Gary Newlove in Warrington a few years ago
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becky sharp · Joined: 01 Dec 2008 Posts: 6815

littlepieces · Joined: 10 Jan 2010 Posts: 1098 Location: Lowestoft

What about the birmingham six guildford four and the maguire severn?
years in prison due to corrupt police forces.They would have been hanged if we had the death penalty
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Toggy · Joined: 18 Aug 2008 Posts: 1239

ruddlescat · Joined: 16 Sep 2010 Posts: 18010 Location: Near Chester

Toggy that's exactly the point I was trying to make on the thread about Newspaper of the Year

The press destroy lives and careers by publishing lies and smears and don't give a s--t as long as it sells them newspapers

I can't believe so many people seem to be taken in by them
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Toggy · Joined: 18 Aug 2008 Posts: 1239

And it still goes on Rolling Eyes

The only thing he is guilty of so far is a terrible haircut, I can't help thinking this is a fit up though I hope I'm wrong.

ruddlescat · Joined: 16 Sep 2010 Posts: 18010 Location: Near Chester

I noticed that yesterday the Attorney General was so concerned he issued a warning to the press to back off so as not to prejudice any court case which MIGHT result

I doubt it will make much difference because as far as I can see the press in this country has more power than the Government whoever is in charge Sad

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becky sharp · Joined: 01 Dec 2008 Posts: 6815

Schizoidman · Joined: 20 Sep 2010 Posts: 1140 Location: Rural West Sussex

Mark: she was a landscape architect, not an estate agent!

ColinB · Guest

Toggy · Joined: 18 Aug 2008 Posts: 1239

Toggy · Joined: 18 Aug 2008 Posts: 1239

Given that he has been released without charge does Mark still think he should be strung up?

ColinB · Guest

Marko has gone conspicuously quiet on this thread. Rolling Eyes

I love the way he has deleted his original comments "for legal reasons" (what legal reasons?).

And written in red. That did make me laugh! Smile

mark occomore · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK

Christopher jefferies has been released.

ruddlescat · Joined: 16 Sep 2010 Posts: 18010 Location: Near Chester

Don't you think you owe him and everyone on this thread an apology Mark

Or are you a Sun reader

The Hillsborough disaster springs to mind Sad

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Toggy · Joined: 18 Aug 2008 Posts: 1239

John W · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 3367 Location: Warwickshire, UK

Jefferies is on bail.

So he is still a suspect.

Insufficient evidence to hold him.

The police likely suspect he has lied to them or is withholding evidence that might incriminate him.

His story about seeing three people, possibly one was the girl, was a bit late coming from him. All the time she was missing Dec 17-25th he didn't come forward with that information so he may be lying to divert police or waste their time.
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mark occomore · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK

I never said anything libelous. I hope the police find the monster who killed Joanne Yeates.

ruddlescat · Joined: 16 Sep 2010 Posts: 18010 Location: Near Chester

Mark if you had not said anything defamatory there would have been no need to delete the original post

Why can't you just admit you got it wrong

In my experience if someone makes a mistake the best course of action is to offer an immediate apology

Even the editor of the Sun eventually had to go to Liverpool in an effort to apologise for the lies which had been written but unfortunately it was more than ten years too late
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mark occomore · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK

Peter Suttcliffe was arrested 7 times before he was convicted.

ruddlescat · Joined: 16 Sep 2010 Posts: 18010 Location: Near Chester

Nobody is trying to defend the killer of this poor young lady

What most of us are saying is that her former landlord is a suspect but there may be many other suspects in this case and no suspect deserves to be described in the terms of your original post UNLESS and UNTIL such time as they have been charged tried AND convicted of an offence

This person may or may not have killed Joanna Yeates and at this stage we simply do not know and until such time as the case is concluded people like you should keep your opinions to yourself as should the very nasty assembly of rags which passes for an alleged responsible free press

And that is the view of the Attorney General not just me
If someone is convicted of this murder then in a free society it is fine for anyone to express a view even one as extreme as yours but until the time is appropriate I would urge you to refrain from any further comment since otherwise you could be placing yourself legally in a very dangerous position
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mark occomore · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK

The police have appealed for anyone who may have seen a cream 4x4 in the area. How sad to end up in a verge , tossed aside like a used piece of garbage in a gutter. Hope they catch the flithy low life soon.

ruddlescat · Joined: 16 Sep 2010 Posts: 18010 Location: Near Chester

We all do Mark and the whole situation is very sad especially happening at Christmas

I suppose her parents will always be reminded when Christmas comes and that must be hard to bear
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ColinB · Guest

becky sharp · Joined: 01 Dec 2008 Posts: 6815

mark occomore · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK

ColinB · Guest

John W · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 3367 Location: Warwickshire, UK

undiscovered · Joined: 15 Sep 2010 Posts: 650 Location: Peterborough

Tabloid vigilantes great just what this country needs a bunch of supposed doo gooders taking the law into their own hands.

Lets hope they don't go for the landlord as until now he has a. not been charged and by far he most important b. not been found guilty in a court of law,

We do still use judges and juries in this country? Murdoch and Rothmere haven't taken over yet have they ?
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ColinB · Guest

I don't quite know where Marko has got the suggestion of vigilanteism in my post - I merely referred to "they", implying that the Police should do what Marko originally suggested - arrest suspects and then hang 'em high without trial!

If he thinks my suggestion is silly then he is, by default, contradicting himself (again)! Smile

becky sharp · Joined: 01 Dec 2008 Posts: 6815

The Book of the Week this week on Radio 4 is The Invention of Murder by Judith Flanders.

Synopsis

"Over the course of the nineteenth century, murder - in reality a rarity - became ubiquitous: transformed into novels, into broadsides and ballads, into theatre and melodrama. "The Invention of Murder" explores the Victorian fascination with deadly violence by relating some of the century's most gripping and gruesome cases and the ways in which they were commercially exploited."

One of the cases being The Red Barn Murder in 1827 which I read up more about on the web where it says ..

The judge, Chief Baron Alexander, was unhappy with the coverage given to the case by the press "to the manifest detriment of the prisoner at the bar". The Times, nevertheless, congratulated the public for showing good sense in aligning themselves against Corder.

Reading that reminded me of this thread.

Full article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Barn_Murder

ruddlescat · Joined: 16 Sep 2010 Posts: 18010 Location: Near Chester

It has been reported today as predicted by me several months ago that the the Attorney General Dominic Grieve is to bring criminal proceedings against the Sun newspaper and the Daily Mirror for contempt of court in respect of their seriously prejudicial reporting of the case in relation to the arrest of the deceased's former landlord

I'm very pleased this action is being taken and I have to say it is most unusual for such action to be taken in a case where the subject of the prejudicial reporting is subsequently not charged with any offence and from that I draw the conclusion that the Attorney General must consider this to be an unusually serious situation

Both newspapers now face large fines and/or possible imprisonment for the persons responsible which I have to say is fully deserved in this case

Oh, and Mark O if you are reading this I'm very glad that you finally took my advice and ceased apeing the tabloid behaviour in relation to this case because I don't think a spell in clink would be good from your point of view Sad

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mark occomore · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK

The judge on Friday 29th July fined The Sun, Mirror, Mail, Express, Star, Sunday Mirror, Scotsman and Daily Record and ruled that those papers were in contempt of court. Newspapers accused Ex School master Chrisopher Jefferies for false suggestions he might have killed his former tenant Joanna Yeates. The accepted the allegations were untrue. They agreed to pay substantial damages and costs to Mr Jefferies. The Sun paid 18K and The Mirror 50K. Obviously we have all got to be careful judging someone. "These newspapers have now apologised to him and paid substantial damages but they do so knowing that once the conditional fee agreement rules are changed next year victims of tabloid witch hunts will no longer have the same access to justice." It might have to do with controlling the ever increasing number of "no win no fee" lawyers