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Joanna Yeates Murder
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mark occomore



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:11 am    Post subject: Joanna Yeates Murder Reply with quote

!!!!!!!!!!!

Last edited by mark occomore on Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:32 pm; edited 3 times in total
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: Joanne Yeates Murder Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
edited
__________



Marko, no person has been arrested. Nobody has yet been charged. Nobody has been tried and found guilty. So, as it stands, the person to whom you refer is guilty of nothing. There's a difference between arresting someone and a person being found guilty of said crime in a court of law. Why don't you understand that?

Nobody to string up, therefore. Please remove your prized Daily Mail hat.
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ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark I just cannot believe you would make such a stupid and patently ridiculous comment

In this country nobody is guilty of any offence unless they have been charged and convicted by a court and even then we have an appeals system in place in order to ensure that wrong jury decisions can be reviewed by professional judges

I do agree that the death penalty should be brought back for certain categories of murder including terrorist crimes and those where guilt is admitted but you cannot on any reasonable basis justify it for certain types of murder including what are often called crimes of passion which are unpremeditated

There is also a seperate issue that every person charged is entitled to a fair trial and often this can be prejudiced by articles written in newspapers and comments on other public fora including this one

As an experienced lawyer who knows quite a lot more about this subject than you I would respectfully suggest that you withdraw your initial comments and await the outcome of whatever things may happen in the future
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:
Mark I just cannot believe you would make such a stupid and patently ridiculous comment


My mother-in-law has a tendancy to come out with the same level of stupidity. I'll say to her "But an accused person isn't guilty of a crime until found guilty by a jury in a court of law" and she'll respond with something equally ridiculous like "I don't know why we waste our money on taking them to court". It's at that point that I usually give up.

Do these people want democracy or not? I do wonder. Rolling Eyes

Edit (Update): According to the 12:00 mid-day news on R2 the man is being "questioned in connection with the murder".
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ruddlescat



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A proper and fairly balanced legal system is necessarily the cornerstone of any society which claims to call itself a democracy and that is one reason why I was so strongly opposed to the actions of the previous Blair Government which tried to systematically erode out proper legal system by such steps as removing Legal Aid availability in many areas of basic need and trying to restrict the availability of jury trial in certain cases

It remains to be seen whether the present Government will continue down this dangerous path but so far to me the signs are not looking good

I just hope that if the present Coalition falls apart as I think it may we can then get someone like David Davies in charge who is a man who believes in real democracy rather than the Big Brother state we now have and was prepared to give up an almost certain future Cabinet position rather than compromise his views for the sake of political expediency and he had the guts to vote against the recent rise in student tuition fees which I hope people will remember for the future
Sorry to blabber on but this is a subject I feel very strongly about
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the latter point, I do agree with you. Although I have never been (nor ever will be) a supporter of the Conservative Party, I do feel that David Davies would have made a better leader - and might do yet once people realise just what a prize prat Cameron is!
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becky sharp



Joined: 01 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:
and those where guilt is admitted
Even where confessions are made there can be mistakes though (Timothy Evans)
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very true Becky and interestingly I notice that the Hanratty case is back in the news today as his family are again asking for a review even though he was hanged almost 50 years ago

If someone believes a serious miscarriage of justice has occured they should never give up fighting and should never have unreasonable obstructions placed in their way by the state which prevent them from doing so

I was more thinking of cases where offenders boast about murders they have committed including the case of Gary Newlove in Warrington a few years ago
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becky sharp



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:
Very true Becky and interestingly I notice that the Hanratty case is back in the news today as his family are again asking for a review even though he was hanged almost 50 years ago

If someone believes a serious miscarriage of justice has occured they should never give up fighting and should never have unreasonable obstructions placed in their way by the state which prevent them from doing so

I was more thinking of cases where offenders boast about murders they have committed including the case of Gary Newlove in Warrington a few years ago



.It makes you wonder,ruddles, why morons such as those boast (it's bound to get back to the authorities) unless they see themselves as 'hard' men knowing full well there is no death penalty..
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littlepieces



Joined: 10 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about the birmingham six guildford four and the maguire severn?
years in prison due to corrupt police forces.They would have been hanged if we had the death penalty
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Toggy



Joined: 18 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Joanna Yeates Murder Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:


They should string him up. I would vote for hanging to return for people like him.


A good time to mention

Colin Stagg
Matthew Kelly
Robert Murat
Tom Stephens

All of whom were guilty of assorted crimes before even any charges were brought according to our 'wonderful' media.

Not to mention

Barry George
Stefan Kiszko
Sheila Bowler
Sally Clark

All of whom served time for murders they did not commit.

I could go on but I don't think I need to, hopefully this shows how much of a crass thing to say that was Mark. At least let somebody be convicted of this crime beyond all doubt before demanding they are swinging from a lamppost.
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toggy that's exactly the point I was trying to make on the thread about Newspaper of the Year

The press destroy lives and careers by publishing lies and smears and don't give a s--t as long as it sells them newspapers

I can't believe so many people seem to be taken in by them
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Toggy



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And it still goes on Rolling Eyes

The only thing he is guilty of so far is a terrible haircut, I can't help thinking this is a fit up though I hope I'm wrong.
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I noticed that yesterday the Attorney General was so concerned he issued a warning to the press to back off so as not to prejudice any court case which MIGHT result

I doubt it will make much difference because as far as I can see the press in this country has more power than the Government whoever is in charge Sad
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becky sharp



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toggy wrote:
And it still goes on Rolling Eyes

The only thing he is guilty of so far is a terrible haircut, I can't help thinking this is a fit up though I hope I'm wrong.

He should be done for that alone... Wink
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Schizoidman



Joined: 20 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark: she was a landscape architect, not an estate agent!
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schizoidman wrote:
Mark: she was a landscape architect, not an estate agent!


I think Marko is after a job as Chief Reporter for the Daily Mail. I'm confident that the phone will be ringing soon! Cool
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Toggy



Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Posts: 1239

PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

becky sharp wrote:

He should be done for that alone... Wink


He looks a bit like 'Doc' from the back to the future films Laughing
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Toggy



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given that he has been released without charge does Mark still think he should be strung up?
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marko has gone conspicuously quiet on this thread. Rolling Eyes

I love the way he has deleted his original comments "for legal reasons" (what legal reasons?).

And written in red. That did make me laugh! Smile
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christopher jefferies has been released.
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't you think you owe him and everyone on this thread an apology Mark

Or are you a Sun reader

The Hillsborough disaster springs to mind Sad
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Toggy



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
Christopher jefferies has been released.


Do you feel a bit silly now? knee jerk reactions are never a good thing.
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John W



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefferies is on bail.

So he is still a suspect.

Insufficient evidence to hold him.

The police likely suspect he has lied to them or is withholding evidence that might incriminate him.

His story about seeing three people, possibly one was the girl, was a bit late coming from him. All the time she was missing Dec 17-25th he didn't come forward with that information so he may be lying to divert police or waste their time.
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never said anything libelous. I hope the police find the monster who killed Joanne Yeates.
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark if you had not said anything defamatory there would have been no need to delete the original post

Why can't you just admit you got it wrong

In my experience if someone makes a mistake the best course of action is to offer an immediate apology

Even the editor of the Sun eventually had to go to Liverpool in an effort to apologise for the lies which had been written but unfortunately it was more than ten years too late
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter Suttcliffe was arrested 7 times before he was convicted.
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobody is trying to defend the killer of this poor young lady

What most of us are saying is that her former landlord is a suspect but there may be many other suspects in this case and no suspect deserves to be described in the terms of your original post UNLESS and UNTIL such time as they have been charged tried AND convicted of an offence

This person may or may not have killed Joanna Yeates and at this stage we simply do not know and until such time as the case is concluded people like you should keep your opinions to yourself as should the very nasty assembly of rags which passes for an alleged responsible free press

And that is the view of the Attorney General not just me
If someone is convicted of this murder then in a free society it is fine for anyone to express a view even one as extreme as yours but until the time is appropriate I would urge you to refrain from any further comment since otherwise you could be placing yourself legally in a very dangerous position
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The police have appealed for anyone who may have seen a cream 4x4 in the area. How sad to end up in a verge , tossed aside like a used piece of garbage in a gutter. Hope they catch the flithy low life soon.
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We all do Mark and the whole situation is very sad especially happening at Christmas

I suppose her parents will always be reminded when Christmas comes and that must be hard to bear
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
Hope they catch the flithy low life soon.


Flithy?

I think they should nab the first person they see who looks a bit dodgy and then string 'em up immediately! We demand justice!!!
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becky sharp



Joined: 01 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruddlescat wrote:
Mark if you had not said anything defamatory there would have been no need to delete the original post

Why can't you just admit you got it wrong

In my experience if someone makes a mistake the best course of action is to offer an immediate apology

Even the editor of the Sun eventually had to go to Liverpool in an effort to apologise for the lies which had been written but unfortunately it was more than ten years too late
He only went back to try and get the locals to buy The Sun again.. Evil or Very Mad ..now if ever there was a candidate for Room 101 this is the chappie.
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ColinB wrote:
mark occomore wrote:
Hope they catch the flithy low life soon.


Flithy?

I think they should nab the first person they see who looks a bit dodgy and then string 'em up immediately! We demand justice!!!


Now you're being stupid. People like this are low lifes. The law dosn't allow vigilantes to go out and take it into there own hands. Shame!! I'm just expressing my own words how I feel. If you don't like what you read, and that goes for anyone else. Please ignore!! Smile
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
ColinB wrote:
mark occomore wrote:
Hope they catch the flithy low life soon.


Flithy?

I think they should nab the first person they see who looks a bit dodgy and then string 'em up immediately! We demand justice!!!


Now you're being stupid.


It's no more stupid than the post that once headed this thread!!!

PS: What does "!!!!!!!!!!" mean?
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John W



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
I'm just expressing my own words how I feel. If you don't like what you read, and that goes for anyone else. Please ignore!! Smile


Mark, as moderator I certainly won't ignore your posts, and neither should anyone else who may be concerned about what you are saying.


mark occomore wrote:
The law doesn't allow vigilantes to go out and take it into there own hands. Shame!!


So are you now suggesting that vigilantes in Bristol would have found the murderer and dealt with him?
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undiscovered



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tabloid vigilantes great just what this country needs a bunch of supposed doo gooders taking the law into their own hands.

Lets hope they don't go for the landlord as until now he has a. not been charged and by far he most important b. not been found guilty in a court of law,

We do still use judges and juries in this country? Murdoch and Rothmere haven't taken over yet have they ?
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't quite know where Marko has got the suggestion of vigilanteism in my post - I merely referred to "they", implying that the Police should do what Marko originally suggested - arrest suspects and then hang 'em high without trial!

If he thinks my suggestion is silly then he is, by default, contradicting himself (again)! Smile
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becky sharp



Joined: 01 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Book of the Week this week on Radio 4 is The Invention of Murder by Judith Flanders.

Synopsis

"Over the course of the nineteenth century, murder - in reality a rarity - became ubiquitous: transformed into novels, into broadsides and ballads, into theatre and melodrama. "The Invention of Murder" explores the Victorian fascination with deadly violence by relating some of the century's most gripping and gruesome cases and the ways in which they were commercially exploited."


One of the cases being The Red Barn Murder in 1827 which I read up more about on the web where it says ..


The judge, Chief Baron Alexander, was unhappy with the coverage given to the case by the press "to the manifest detriment of the prisoner at the bar". The Times, nevertheless, congratulated the public for showing good sense in aligning themselves against Corder.


Reading that reminded me of this thread.

Full article


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Barn_Murder
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has been reported today as predicted by me several months ago that the the Attorney General Dominic Grieve is to bring criminal proceedings against the Sun newspaper and the Daily Mirror for contempt of court in respect of their seriously prejudicial reporting of the case in relation to the arrest of the deceased's former landlord

I'm very pleased this action is being taken and I have to say it is most unusual for such action to be taken in a case where the subject of the prejudicial reporting is subsequently not charged with any offence and from that I draw the conclusion that the Attorney General must consider this to be an unusually serious situation

Both newspapers now face large fines and/or possible imprisonment for the persons responsible which I have to say is fully deserved in this case

Oh, and Mark O if you are reading this I'm very glad that you finally took my advice and ceased apeing the tabloid behaviour in relation to this case because I don't think a spell in clink would be good from your point of view Sad
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The judge on Friday 29th July fined The Sun, Mirror, Mail, Express, Star, Sunday Mirror, Scotsman and Daily Record and ruled that those papers were in contempt of court. Newspapers accused Ex School master Chrisopher Jefferies for false suggestions he might have killed his former tenant Joanna Yeates. The accepted the allegations were untrue. They agreed to pay substantial damages and costs to Mr Jefferies. The Sun paid 18K and The Mirror 50K. Obviously we have all got to be careful judging someone. "These newspapers have now apologised to him and paid substantial damages but they do so knowing that once the conditional fee agreement rules are changed next year victims of tabloid witch hunts will no longer have the same access to justice." It might have to do with controlling the ever increasing number of "no win no fee" lawyers
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