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New BBC Radio Pages

 
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graham b



Joined: 23 Sep 2010
Posts: 211
Location: Wakefield

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:45 pm    Post subject: New BBC Radio Pages Reply with quote

Has anyone else seen the Beta version of the Radio 2 frontpage. Looks bloody awful to me. Any other views?

Last edited by graham b on Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Helen May



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 18161
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Totally agree, awful. Have you left feedback?

What is it with these sites that have a black or dark background and white text? Not easy on the eyes at all.

H
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88 - 91 FM this is Radio 2 from the BBC!

I said it live on air in the studio with Jeremy Vine on 10/3/2005
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becky sharp



Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 5840

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Helen May wrote:
Totally agree, awful. Have you left feedback?

What is it with these sites that have a black or dark background and white text? Not easy on the eyes at all.

H

When the BBC Radio 2 boards closed down some people went to Gavin's Station but I couldn't use it because of what you say ,Helen.
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It depends on which browser, and what platform, you're using. It looks good on the iPad - nice, clean and simple.
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Helen May



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 18161
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe so Colin, but I'd say that the majority of users will not be using an iPad, at the moment anyway.

It's a well known fact that dark backgrounds with light text are not as easy on the eye as the other way round.

H

PS Just noticed you've moved...... Thought of you the other day when I was thinking of switching to Apple from Windows as I couldn't think of anyone I knew who uses it. The jury is still out!
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88 - 91 FM this is Radio 2 from the BBC!

I said it live on air in the studio with Jeremy Vine on 10/3/2005
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Helen May wrote:
Maybe so Colin, but I'd say that the majority of users will not be using an iPad, at the moment anyway.


We're nearing the point where the majority of web users are now using Smartphones (tablets are classed as Smartphones) and the stylesheet amendments are designed to take this into account.

Helen May wrote:
It's a well known fact that dark backgrounds with light text are not as easy on the eye as the other way round.


That's true. I worked for a while as a new media projects manager at the Open University (which has done a massive amount of work in aiding web accessibility for students with disabilities) and that's always been the case. However, with display devices have developed hugely in the 7 years since I left it's much less of an issue. However, I feel there should be an option for users to switch stylesheet display modes - eg: black on white or colour, etc. It does look OK on my iPad, iPhone and computer displays though - but I accept that we all react differently to this stuff.

Helen May wrote:
PS Just noticed you've moved...... Thought of you the other day when I was thinking of switching to Apple from Windows as I couldn't think of anyone I knew who uses it. The jury is still out!


I haven't moved - I've just temporarily relocated while doing some work down here in my "home city"!

Yes, I am primarily an Apple user, largely because of the business I'm in (video and audio capture, editing, format conversion). In fact, on Monday I'm about to replace a Windows 7 PC with another Apple Mac as it's not possible to do what I need on Windows any more. Apple is now way ahead. I also prefer the overall Apple way of doing things; Windows drives me nuts!
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R2Icon



Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 1444

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the main it's ok, it's just a web-page- not keen on the black background- a bit satanic but better the devil you know. I can't really get excited about it one way or the other- I only use the website for access to the iplayer and checking the track-lists for some shows. Changing web page design is just a sign of boredom or maybe chasing rainbows. Who isn't guilty of that from time to time?
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

R2Icon wrote:
Changing web page design is just a sign of boredom or maybe chasing rainbows


...or to add new options, improved back-end functionality and SEO?

Stuff like this is always tested for broad accessibility by people with disabilities. When I was at the Open University, all our web and mobile output had to passed by what we called the "accessibility police" who would look at /listen to (using speech-to-text reading technology) a website and add comments & suggestions about where improvements could be made.

Given the wide range of methods by which web media is now accessed, with mobile being the fastest-growing of all, it's important that the Beeb is ahead of the game. They also have a legal obligation to make their web content standards-compliant, of course.
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Helen May



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 18161
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the same token don't they also have a legal obligation to those who choose to use a 'simple' laptop Colin?

Surely we shouldn't have to suffer.

H
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88 - 91 FM this is Radio 2 from the BBC!

I said it live on air in the studio with Jeremy Vine on 10/3/2005
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Helen May wrote:
By the same token don't they also have a legal obligation to those who choose to use a 'simple' laptop Colin?


Of course. Normally, there'll be a script server-side which "sniffs" the operating system being used (eg: which Windows, Mac OS, Linux, iOS, Android, etc) and then the display resolution being used to view the page. Once this is done, the appropriate stylesheet is called and the content is made visible. If your laptop is displaying the content badly then they ought to be told by using the "comment" on the RHS of the pages. It is a beta version, after all, so the development team will value feedback.

I should also add that due to the non standards-compliance of Internet Explorer up to and including IE7, pages are sometimes displayed inaccurately; that's down to the stubborn-ness of Microsoft and something that does annoy web content creators, so maybe that has something to do with it. I doubt it though as the beeb's web developers will be well aware of such issues and will add additional code to force IE to display pages properly. It's something we all have to do, unfortunately.

Like I said earlier, the pages look fine on all my displays whether big or small.
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RockitRon



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 7565

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've come to the concludion that website/page design and comment thereon has become the new trainspotting Rolling Eyes
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Ron
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R2Icon



Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 1444

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RockitRon wrote:
I've come to the concludion that website/page design and comment thereon has become the new trainspotting Rolling Eyes


Yep it is Ron, some people get really excited by web-page design but it's just fluff really, they should be simple to use and they should work, if not then they've failed. There's far too many websites trying to be too clever by half, if I can't find what I'm looking for in 30-seconds or less, forget it- closedown. Life is too short.
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For some of us, this version of "trainspotting" forms part of one's livelihood. When a person asks a question, it's only fair to answer. Let's be honest, if the "trainspotting" were about - say - football, the responses from those interested in football might well be in the same vein. Such is life.

R2Icon wrote:
Yep it is Ron, some people get really excited by web-page design but it's just fluff really, they should be simple to use and they should work, if not then they've failed. There's far too many websites trying to be too clever by half, if I can't find what I'm looking for in 30-seconds or less, forget it- closedown. Life is too short.


Not really true, Rachel. When it works, nobody notices, but when there's something stopping it from working then people will wonder why - as indeed did Helen. It's entirely reasonable that she should expect it to work properly; she does, after all, contribute funds to help create it in the first place.

So it isn't all "fluff", is it?
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Rob



Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 163
Location: Leicester

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I couldn't find the webcam anywhere. Don't want to lose that!
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They seem to have done away with them now - haven't they? If so, I can't say I blame them.
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Helen May



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 18161
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob wrote:
I couldn't find the webcam anywhere. Don't want to lose that!


Have you mentioned it on the Feedback form Rob?

It could be an error as it disappeared from the homepage a few weeks ago and returned a few days later. I'd not used it for a while but someone made a remark about someone in the studio's appearance and as I was sat at the laptop at the time I was curious! Might have been Ken and Lynn!

H
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88 - 91 FM this is Radio 2 from the BBC!

I said it live on air in the studio with Jeremy Vine on 10/3/2005
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R2Icon



Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 1444

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ColinB wrote:
For some of us, this version of "trainspotting" forms part of one's livelihood. When a person asks a question, it's only fair to answer. Let's be honest, if the "trainspotting" were about - say - football, the responses from those interested in football might well be in the same vein. Such is life.

R2Icon wrote:
Yep it is Ron, some people get really excited by web-page design but it's just fluff really, they should be simple to use and they should work, if not then they've failed. There's far too many websites trying to be too clever by half, if I can't find what I'm looking for in 30-seconds or less, forget it- closedown. Life is too short.


Not really true, Rachel. When it works, nobody notices, but when there's something stopping it from working then people will wonder why - as indeed did Helen. It's entirely reasonable that she should expect it to work properly; she does, after all, contribute funds to help create it in the first place.

So it isn't all "fluff", is it?


You miss my point, Colin, what I said was that websites should work, and they should be easy to use. If they don't work and aren't easy to use then the website designer has failed, pure and simple. Of course Helen is right to point out something that doesn't work, but she shouldn't have to, no user should. People and organisations that "just put it out there" to see what the world thinks are lazy cheapskates- test it properly!!!!!
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

R2Icon wrote:
You miss my point, Colin, what I said was that websites should work, and they should be easy to use. If they don't work and aren't easy to use then the website designer has failed, pure and simple.


Not strictly true, because each and every website relies on all available browsers to display the information properly - and if one or more don't comply with agreed (W3C) standards then developers have effectively one hand tied behind their backs.

R2Icon wrote:
Of course Helen is right to point out something that doesn't work, but she shouldn't have to, no user should. People and organisations that "just put it out there" to see what the world thinks are lazy cheapskates- test it properly!!!!!


Nothing to do with "lazy cheapskates" - see above.

Let's not forget, also, that the BBC site update is in beta.
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R2Icon



Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 1444

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Colin, you can't use "industry" speak on sites for "non industry" users i.e. the public. Do you think my 92 year old mum-in-law knows what a beta site is? Don't be such a Charlie!

Test it, test it, test it, test it and when you've done that, test it again!
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

R2Icon wrote:
Colin, you can't use "industry" speak on sites for "non industry" users i.e. the public. Do you think my 92 year old mum-in-law knows what a beta site is? Don't be such a Charlie!


There's a tab on the right side of the page marked "Feedback". That's what you click to tell them what you think or what's not working.

R2Icon wrote:
Test it, test it, test it, test it and when you've done that, test it again!


It seems to have been tested pretty well by my reckoning. I like the new visual theme but Helen doesn't like the white text on black background. That seems to be the measure of it.
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