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mark occomore
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mark occomore
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mark occomore
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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 Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Some items: Horse Manure, Tampax, Toilet Seats, Family Circle Biscuits and shampoo which are bizarre. Have they not got any of there own money to pay for these items. I don't think they should get money for luxuries?
Also why should they do up homes from Tax Payers money and make money on them. Some like Mandelson are up in the air, because they have done nothing wrong, but out in the public domain. |
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John W
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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Location: Warwickshire, UK
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Are all these 'revelations' things that were going to be sorted (paid back) before all the expenses data became officially available? |
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colby
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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Mark, I do wish you'd learn to wrap long URLs properly in BBcode. It causes havoc with mobile-based browsers even though it really isn't that difficult.
Really! 
By the way, given that all the expenses claims are (we're told) in conformance with House of Commons practice, don't you think that there's a right-wing motive in a right-wing paper publishing this stuff in a time of left-of-centre political crisis? And in the run-up to an important election, too?
Just a thought - in case it hasn't yet become apparent to you as you rush to post links to "topical issues".
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mark occomore
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 5:15 am Post subject: |
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And there is more
| Quote: | And there's more...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...he-system.html
Tourism Minister Barbara Follett claimed 25K security patrols outside her London home. She's Authors Ken Folletts wife. Why do they need to claim, as they are very wealthy?
Keith Vaz, the former minister who now chairs the Home Affairs select committee, bought and furnished a flat in central London at taxpayers' expense despite living just 12 miles away with his wife in a £1.15 million property. He claimed more than £75,000 for the flat.
Mr Vaz also changed his designated second home for a single year to a property he owns in his Leicester constituency. During this year – 2007-08 – he claimed £1,000 for a table and chairs, £750 on new carpets, and £2,614 for a pair of leather armchairs. He also claimed for 22 cushions, including 17 made from silk costing £15 each. During the course of the year he rented out his London flat.
• Margaret Moran, the Labour MP for Luton, spent £22,500 of taxpayers' money treating dry rot at her and her husband's seaside house 100 miles from her constituency – days after switching her "second home" there.
The parliamentary authorities were concerned that the work broke the "spirit" of the rules. However, the MP's claim was not blocked. Miss Moran's expenses appear to be among the most questionable of any MP.
Over four years she also spent thousands of pounds on three separate properties, switching between Westminster, Luton and Southampton and renovating each home in turn.
• Phil Hope, the Care Services Minister, has spent more than £37,000 on refurbishing and furnishing a modest two-bedroom flat in south London.
• Ben Bradshaw, the Health Minister, switched the designation of his second home to a property he shares with his partner in west London. Although the couple initially split the mortgage costs, Mr Bradshaw now claims the entire interest bill on the property – despite owning only half the property.
• Phil Woolas, the Home Office Minister, claimed for items of women's clothing, tampons and nappies. The parliamentary rules only allow expenses which are "exclusively" for MPs' own use so it is not clear these items were justified.
• Greg Barker, the shadow climate change minister, made £320,000 after buying a flat with the help of taxpayers' money, and selling it after only 27 months. He is the first senior Tory to become embroiled in the expenses row, but details of other prominent Conservatives will be disclosed in coming days.
• Barry Gardiner, the former environment minister, made a profit of almost £200,000 after buying a Westminster flat and claiming thousands of pounds to renovate the property. Mr Gardiner's main home is only eight miles from Parliament. |
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colby
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 11:14 am Post subject: |
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So what, Mark?
What's the point of cutting and pasting this stuff in this forum? Surely we're all aware of this "issue" thanks to mainstream media?
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John W
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| colby wrote: | So what, Mark?
What's the point of cutting and pasting this stuff in this forum? Surely we're all aware of this "issue" thanks to mainstream media? |
colby, I'm grateful to Mark for posting that list, I don't read newspapers or teletext much.
| colby wrote: | By the way, given that all the expenses claims are (we're told) in conformance with House of Commons practice, don't you think that there's a right-wing motive in a right-wing paper publishing this stuff in a time of left-of-centre political crisis? And in the run-up to an important election, too?
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I don't really buy that, the revelations are across all parties' MPs.
They all say the system's wrong, yet they willingly used a bad system. It stinks. People like Mandelson (spending when he knew his MP time was ending) and Keith Vaz £75k !!
Looking forward to the tory list Mark!
John |
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colby
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| John W wrote: |
colby, I'm grateful to Mark for posting that list, I don't read newspapers or teletext much. |
Nor do I (what's teletext, by the way?  ) but it's all over the web as well.
| colby wrote: | | I don't really buy that, the revelations are across all parties' MPs. |
I don't think there can be any doubt about the D-Tel's motive: to force a resignation of the PM by showing him to be out of control, and - in consequence - by encouraging his successor to call a general election soon after.
Yet again, Britain's press barons run the show.
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John W
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| colby wrote: |
I don't think there can be any doubt about the D-Tel's motive: to force a resignation of the PM by showing him to be out of control, and - in consequence - by encouraging his successor to call a general election soon after. |
Well, let's see which Tory MPs they target, see if Cameron is seen as squeaky clean
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mark occomore
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| colby wrote: | So what, Mark?
Surely we're all aware of this "issue" thanks to mainstream media? |
If so why are you posting your comments? |
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John W
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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Mark, keep us up to date on this.
I don't get much of this stuff first hand so I'm looking forward to the Tory stuff - already read a rumour at yahoo about Greg Barker, one of David Cameron mateys, who bought a flat with help from expenses and then soon sold it for a profit of £300k.
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colby
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| mark occomore wrote: | | colby wrote: | So what, Mark?
Surely we're all aware of this "issue" thanks to mainstream media? |
If so why are you posting your comments? |
That's a good point Mark, and you've got me done up like a kipper. I apologise unreservedly. 
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Cherskiy
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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Just watched Margaret Moran (spelling?) squirming rather uncomfortably on a portion of the Politics Show to be shown tomorrow (Sunday) in BBC's East region - it was shown on Snooze24.
Not only does she have a house in her constituency and a 2nd home in London, she also has a third in Southampton so she can be with her partner. Due to this so-called "flipping", she's managed to claim expenses on all three over the last few years. "But it's all within the rules", she pouts.
It might well be within the rules legally, but morally it's so wrong that it's virtually indefensible. With the UK economy down the tubes, thousands more people losing their jobs and others finding it harder to make ends meet, MPs receive funds to do up second properties and receive a generous monthly food allowance on top.
Instead of realising that public sympathy is non-existent and MPs need to change their ways, smarmy Phil Woolas bleats about how he has been wronged, and that he possibly intends to take legal action. This is the same person who tried to toe the party line about refusing Gurkhas the right to settle in the UK, citing how much public money would need to be spent to house them and their dependents - just when he and his cronies are so face-down in the trough that they're blinded by their own greed.
Oh, the irony of it all.
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colby
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| Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Whatever the rules are with regard to all this lot, one thing's for sure - they can be changed. By us. At the ballot box. Simple.
Moreover, if the "rules" remain unchanged after the next General Election we know who to blame: Ourselves. Simple.
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Cherskiy
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| Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| colby wrote: | Whatever the rules are with regard to all this lot, one thing's for sure - they can be changed. By us. At the ballot box. Simple.
Moreover, if the "rules" remain unchanged after the next General Election we know who to blame: Ourselves. Simple. |
Trouble is, you'll still have a hardcore of the "oh, we always vote Zanu PF Labour" supporters who'll make sure the usual suspects keep their seats. You could put a dog up for election in my constituency and it would win, if it was wearing a red rosette.
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colby
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| Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| Cherskiy wrote: | | Trouble is, you'll still have a hardcore of the "oh, we always vote Zanu PF Labour" supporters who'll make sure the usual suspects keep their seats. You could put a dog up for election in my constituency and it would win, if it was wearing a red rosette. |
I think the overall national picture is going to be generally different this time. Although my politics have never been (and never will be) of a right-of-centre persuasion, I think it's fair to assume that the next general election will not produce a Labour majority in the Commons. So, it will be encumbent on the incoming leadership to make sure that such changes are made.
Somehow, I cannot see that happening if that "nice" Mr. Cameron is in the chair. But I could be proven wrong. It depends on the choices made by ordinary people at the ballot box - if people can't be bothered to vote it's their own fault, really.
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mark occomore
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| Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 8:02 pm Post subject: Tory MP Claiming For Weeding |
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| Quote: | Alan Duncan, the senior Conservative MP who oversees the party’s policy on MPs’ expenses, claimed thousands of pounds for his garden – but stopped after agreeing with the fees office that his expenditure “could be considered excessive”, the Telegraph can reveal.
The range of practices exposed also includes more cases of “flipping” in which MPs switch their designated second home to claim expenses on new properties.
Hazel Blears is under pressure to explain why she “flipped” her second home three times in one year. The Telegraph revealed her complicated homes moves on Friday, but the Communities Secretary maintained yesterday she had done nothing wrong.
Tomorrow the Telegraph will disclose instances where Conservative MPs have gone to great lengths to ensure their country properties are maintained at taxpayers’ cost.
One shadow minister has had piping repaired that stretches under his tennis court.
A senior member of the shadow cabinet claimed for 25 light bulbs to be replaced in his second home in West London.
Another has used his designated second home allowance to upgrade a property just prior to selling it.
Labour politicians have been angry that the Telegraph has been concentrating on the expenses of Government ministers, including 13 members of the Cabinet.
David Cameron last week refused to get drawn into commenting directly on specific cases of Labour MPs who have abused the system, but he did call for an overhaul of the lax allowances and expenses regime.
But the Conservative leader will be under pressure to show he grasps the seriousness of the situation following Mr Brown's continuing refusal to say sorry for some of his Cabinet’s behaviour. |
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5304821/MPs-expenses-Telegraph-investigation-shifts-to-Conservatives.html |
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colby
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| Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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Great post Mark. Brilliant! 
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mark occomore
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MadeinSurrey
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 7:15 am Post subject: |
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Thre's one thing I don't get about all this. Years ago, I worked in a department that paid staff expenses. Every single item was verified, and many rejected. Is it too obvious to ask "who checks MP's expense claims, and authorizes them"?
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Cherskiy
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| MadeinSurrey wrote: | | Is it too obvious to ask "who checks MP's expense claims, and authorizes them"? |
The Fees Office handle the requests for payment. They should be named and shamed along with the MPs for allowing such breaches of the spirit, if not the letter, of the laws that were brought in for claims.
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mark occomore
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Cameron says No more claiming for plugs, patio heaters, swimnming pools. 
Now some MP's are rushing to pay cheques to the tax man. God, how much Tax rebate will they get back next year. I don't believe they are doing this in the right way.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8047005.stm |
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John W
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| mark occomore wrote: | I don't believe they are doing this in the right way.
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I think they are. Name and shame.
None of these returned/repayed expenses would have happened without the Telegraph.
Now, where's Colby who said this was just an anti-Labour stunt?
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colby
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| John W wrote: | | Now, where's Colby who said this was just an anti-Labour stunt? |
If you look back through the thread, John, you'll see that I didn't claim it to be a labour stunt. I said that it was the Torygraph using their right-of-centre position to force a call for a general election.
That isn't quite the same. However, the fact that all MPs have been allowed to get away with this (despite the existence of an Audit Commission) is obviously deeply embarrassing to the PM, so in that sense it could be said to be an anti-Labour stunt of a sort.
I don't think there's any doubt that the Telegraph and a large proportion of its readers would prefer David Cameron to be PM.
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mark occomore
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aviddiva
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 12:58 pm Post subject: Telegraph get hands on MPs expenses disc! |
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Did anyone else think of the Bonzos's 'Trouser Press' when the trouser press came up?
'Do the trouser press, baby -wooooo!'
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mark occomore
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Now some MP's are rushing to pay cheques to the tax man. God, how much Tax rebate will they get back next year. I don't believe they are doing this in the right way. |
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colby
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| mark occomore wrote: | | Now some MP's are rushing to pay cheques to the tax man. God, how much Tax rebate will they get back next year. I don't believe they are doing this in the right way. |
It's OK. They're all made of rubber anyhow.
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Lord Evan Elpuss
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| colby wrote: | | John W wrote: | | Now, where's Colby who said this was just an anti-Labour stunt? |
If you look back through the thread, John, you'll see that I didn't claim it to be a labour stunt. I said that it was the Torygraph using their right-of-centre position to force a call for a general election.
That isn't quite the same. However, the fact that all MPs have been allowed to get away with this (despite the existence of an Audit Commission) is obviously deeply embarrassing to the PM, so in that sense it could be said to be an anti-Labour stunt of a sort.
I don't think there's any doubt that the Telegraph and a large proportion of its readers would prefer David Cameron to be PM. |
It probably did start out as an anti labour stunt. But even the one who's been making most noise about it has been at it!
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/05/13/another-day-of-shame-in-parliament-115875-21353790/
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colby
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I'm tending to agree with that. The fact is that the Telegraph represents "the establishment" and although members of said "establishment" have also been on the fiddle in this case, the whole thing has been brought to the surface whilst on Gordon Brown's watch, and therefore one can safely assume that there's an underlying political potive in the proprietors of the Telegraph deciding to run with this story at this particular point in time. After all, the timing cannot surely be accidental, can it.
Blimey, even Polly Toynbee is calling for Brown's resignation. Things really are bad for the PM then!
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Gnasty Gnome
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Speaking as a Telegraph reader of 20 years' standing, I think the paper's decision was more socially than politically motivated; all the main parties have now been found wanting, and since it's been done in the "correct" order one can hardly accuse them of making political capital out of it.
It was the Lib-Dems' turn today to have their trotters checked for pigswill, and I must confess that I gained a certain feeling of satisfaction (but not surprise) in finding that for all their platitudes of social conscience they're as venal as the rest.
Regrettably this was always going to be inevitable given the modern trend for politics as a career rather than a calling. Nest-feathering on this scale is a bit more than pinching paperclips out of the office, and should be treated as such.
I did think that it was rather cruel of the Telegraph to include one Labour MP's oversight in claiming for a fiver's worth of cat food, though. If that's the limit of her sins I can live with it. |
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mark occomore
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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It s does make me wonder how these MPs have the money at hand, and can dip into his funds to write a cheque for £42,000 has the cheek to claim that amount in the first place
These barstewards think that they can wipe the slate clean by repaying the money they took off the taxpayers unfairly
I think the MP's should get off the bandwagon, and stop writing blank cheques thinking it's all ok, and wait until they are called upon for the monies to be refunded to the Tax Man.. They are looking more foolish doing this. |
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colby
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Gnasty Gnome wrote: | | I did think that it was rather cruel of the Telegraph to include one Labour MP's oversight in claiming for a fiver's worth of cat food, though. If that's the limit of her sins I can live with it. |
Yes. What bothers me about all this is that the genuine MPs - of which there are many, particularly the hard-working long-serving backbenchers who just get on with the job - are wrongly tarnished with this brush as well - and this must act as a massive disincentive for people to want to get into politics (for the right reasons). If, thanks to the Telegraph, an even greater proportion of the population have even less faith in those who are elected to represent us in the House of Commons, then there's little hope for any of us.
| mark occomore wrote: | | These barstewards think that they can wipe the slate clean by repaying the money they took off the taxpayers unfairly |
But they didn't take money off taxpayers "unfairly" - the system allowed them to do it, and even the Audit Commission didn't flag it. The fact that the system allowed it to happen is what is now being questioned, and rightly so. The system should never have gone unchecked.
| mark occomore wrote: | | I think the MP's should get off the bandwagon, and stop writing blank cheques thinking it's all ok, and wait until they are called upon for the monies to be refunded to the Tax Man.. They are looking more foolish doing this. |
It's not the "tax man's" money. There's been no suggestion that they defrauded HMRC in all this.
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Gnasty Gnome
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| colby wrote: | What bothers me about all this is that the genuine MPs - of which there are many, particularly the hard-working long-serving backbenchers who just get on with the job - are wrongly tarnished with this brush as well - and this must act as a massive disincentive for people to want to get into politics (for the right reasons). If, thanks to the Telegraph, an even greater proportion of the population have even less faith in those who are elected to represent us in the House of Commons, then there's little hope for any of us.
. |
I agree with your conclusion; however, I have to say in the Telegraph's defence that their reporting seems far more balanced and measured than most; even Henry Porter in the Grauniad damns the government without holding the equally culpable Tory grandees to account.
I would be interested to see if there is indeed a "good list" of members who really do deserve the title "honourable", later in the week. |
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mark occomore
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| colby wrote: |
It's not the "tax man's" money. There's been no suggestion that they defrauded HMRC in all this. |
Thanks! They might not defrauded the system, but definitely abused it. I don't think I will vote in the next general election. |
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Gnasty Gnome
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Posts: 313
Location: West Wales
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| mark occomore wrote: | | I don't think I will vote in the next general election. |
If you don't vote, you shouldn't complain.  |
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colby
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 1216
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| Gnasty Gnome wrote: | | mark occomore wrote: | | I don't think I will vote in the next general election. |
If you don't vote, you shouldn't complain. |
A point with which I absolutely agree.
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MadeinSurrey
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 7:21 am Post subject: |
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The worrying thing is that turnout at the next General Election will be even lower than last time. We will be in the invidious position of having an elected government in power with the support of a small percentage of the population.
I think voting should be made compulsory, even if the ballot paper is spoilt - at least then the democratic right has been exercised.
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Cherskiy
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Location: near Amble, Northumberland
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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I want to know how you can forget you've got a mortgage, or forget that you suddenly haven't.
If that's the level of competence shown by our so-called esteemed public servants, then they should be getting their P45s soonest. Oh, wait, it doesn't work that way. We'll have to wait until next May to fire them.
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