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johnpetters
Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 7
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 Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:46 pm Post subject: Video Response to Bob Shennan's Feedback appearance |
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I've just posted a video response to Bob Shennan's 'Feedback' appearance on 18th September.
Because of copyright issues, I have only been able to use music for which I own the copyright.
The link is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb8YFosSChw |
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John W
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 3367
Location: Warwickshire, UK
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Nicely done John, getting your valid points across.
But on my PC the music is often too loud when you are speaking so it's difficult to hear what you are saying much of the time 
John W |
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johnpetters
Joined: 10 Jul 2009
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RockitRon
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 7646
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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I'll be kind and put it this way:
Yes, very well presented and forcefully put - you wouldn't expect anything else, because you're a pro, with a vested interest.
It sounds an excellent advertisement for the John Petters Swing Band!
(I'll come back to this when I've got more time - just thought I'd show that it had not gone unseen or been ignored)
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Ron |
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R2Icon
Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 1444
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| I disagree with what you've said in your video, John. You claim to one of many millions of disenfranchised listeners but that number is pure speculation, you can be sure of only your own opinion and perhaps that of people you know personally but to claim you are one of like-minded millions is quite the wrong approach, and that got my back up in the first 10 seconds of your video. Some good music going on in the background though. |
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John W
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 3367
Location: Warwickshire, UK
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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Who, in 1990, would have thought a commercial station playing classical music would attract 5 million listeners ? (if we are to believe Rajar)
I'm with Jonh Petters on this one, Icon.
If Teale/Laycock, Carrington, Davies, Titchmarch, Elaine Paige and David Jacobs can get a shared or combined audience of 2 million then what would a DAYTIME schedule get that played all their music genres?
More.
John W |
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johnpetters
Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| R2Icon wrote: | | I disagree with what you've said in your video, John. You claim to one of many millions of disenfranchised listeners but that number is pure speculation, you can be sure of only your own opinion and perhaps that of people you know personally but to claim you are one of like-minded millions is quite the wrong approach, and that got my back up in the first 10 seconds of your video. Some good music going on in the background though. |
I'm sorry it put your back up - but it does need to state the facts as clearly as possible.
I meet many people on the road who very nearly all agree with what I said in the video.
And they are just jazz fans. Multiply that by the number of different disenfranchised musical genres and the folk who jumped ship for Radio 4 and Classic FM and you will find the numbers will be very likely in the millions.
Short of doing a survey - which is impracticale, there is no way of being sure of the numbers, but how accurate are Bob Shennan's? |
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johnpetters
Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| RockitRon wrote: | I'll be kind and put it this way:
Yes, very well presented and forcefully put - you wouldn't expect anything else, because you're a pro, with a vested interest.
It sounds an excellent advertisement for the John Petters Swing Band!
(I'll come back to this when I've got more time - just thought I'd show that it had not gone unseen or been ignored) |
Hi Ron,
I'm a pro musician not a video maker.
As for the vested interest, I'd be very surprised at ANY of my recordings getting airplay on Radio 2 after getting so far up the management's noses.
Before I got involved in rocking the boat I did consider whether it could have a detrimental effect on my career and came to the conclusion that I'd rather fight for the good of music - it is in all our long term interests, so I could argue the opposite is true.
It ended up with my recordings because YouTube flagged up a copyright issue from Sony, presumably over the Benny Goodman and Billie Holiday recordings I was trying to use. They are wrong as the recordings are out of copyrite, but that is one battle I don't have to or intend to fight.
keep swinging
John |
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johnpetters
Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| John W wrote: | Who, in 1990, would have thought a commercial station playing classical music would attract 5 million listeners ? (if we are to believe Rajar)
I'm with Jonh Petters on this one, Icon.
If Teale/Laycock, Carrington, Davies, Titchmarch, Elaine Paige and David Jacobs can get a shared or combined audience of 2 million then what would a DAYTIME schedule get that played all their music genres?
More.
John W |
Totally correct, John. Seems to evade the understanding of some of our friends on other boards. |
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RockitRon
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 7646
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| johnpetters wrote: | | RockitRon wrote: | I'll be kind and put it this way:
Yes, very well presented and forcefully put - you wouldn't expect anything else, because you're a pro, with a vested interest.
It sounds an excellent advertisement for the John Petters Swing Band!
(I'll come back to this when I've got more time - just thought I'd show that it had not gone unseen or been ignored) |
Hi Ron,
I'm a pro musician not a video maker.
As for the vested interest, I'd be very surprised at ANY of my recordings getting airplay on Radio 2 after getting so far up the management's noses.
Before I got involved in rocking the boat I did consider whether it could have a detrimental effect on my career and came to the conclusion that I'd rather fight for the good of music - it is in all our long term interests, so I could argue the opposite is true.
It ended up with my recordings because YouTube flagged up a copyright issue from Sony, presumably over the Benny Goodman and Billie Holiday recordings I was trying to use. They are wrong as the recordings are out of copyrite, but that is one battle I don't have to or intend to fight.
keep swinging
John |
Sorry, John. I did mean a pro in musical and presentation terms, and a vested interest in that it is the type of music you play and promote (dance band/swing/trad jazz), the dilution of coverage of which particularly concerns you.
I'll put my personal feelings on the subject in a separate message.
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Ron |
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RockitRon
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 7646
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| John W wrote: | Who, in 1990, would have thought a commercial station playing classical music would attract 5 million listeners ? (if we are to believe Rajar)
I'm with Jonh Petters on this one, Icon.
If Teale/Laycock, Carrington, Davies, Titchmarch, Elaine Paige and David Jacobs can get a shared or combined audience of 2 million then what would a DAYTIME schedule get that played all their music genres?
More.
John W |
I don't know what Radio 3's audience figures were prior to the launch of Classic FM but I think it is safe to say they were somewhat higher than they are now. The success of the commercial station is due to the more popular repertoire which is played, in a more relaxed atmosphere, and, ironically, the "celebrity" presenters (eg Henry Kelly, David Mellor) or those who made their name in pop radio (Paul Gambaccini, Simon Bates). A popular classical radio channel was way overdue by the time it arrived; it's the only one and the only surprise should be that its weekly audience is only 5 million.
No, I'm sorry, John, it would be less, because it would turn off a substantial number of the 5-8million people who currently listen to Radio 2 in the daytime.
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Ron |
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John W
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 3367
Location: Warwickshire, UK
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| RockitRon wrote: | | John W wrote: | If Teale/Laycock, Carrington, Davies, Titchmarch, Elaine Paige and David Jacobs can get a shared or combined audience of 2 million then what would a DAYTIME schedule get that played all their music genres?
More.
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No, I'm sorry, John, it would be less, because it would turn off a substantial number of the 5-8million people who currently listen to Radio 2 in the daytime. |
Ron, what I mean is that those programmes would get a combined audience more than 2 million if the were on in the daytime.
John W |
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RockitRon
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 7646
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:33 am Post subject: |
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They might indeed. But I think you're more likely to get howls of protest from the 20 million or so other licence-fee payers that the BBC is pandering to the tastes of a tiny minority. The Beeb's existing minority channels, including Radio 3, are, I suspect, only allowed to remain relatively free of such criticism because of the mass popularity of 1 and 2 in the daytime.
| R2Icon wrote: | | I disagree with what you've said in your video, John. You claim to one of many millions of disenfranchised listeners but that number is pure speculation, you can be sure of only your own opinion and perhaps that of people you know personally but to claim you are one of like-minded millions is quite the wrong approach, and that got my back up in the first 10 seconds of your video. Some good music going on in the background though. |
I echo this view. The claim of "many millions of disenfranchised listeners" is absurd. If you look at the Rajar figures for Radios 1-4 for the last three and five years they are remarkably level; compared to ten years ago they are all up. Is that the performance, in the face of a proliferation of digital alternatives, of a network which fails the public?
I do have a certain amount of sympathy with the sense of loss at the dilution of provision of specialist music genres in the evenings, which is when I might, given half a chance, want to set time aside, be somewhere quiet and listen. Such times are few and far between, as I suspect they are in most households, to the extent that the audience figures for Laycock/Teal, or Organist Entertains, or Listen to the Band, must be in the thousands, rather than the millions. The efforts to encourage more people to listen in the evening, by broadening the appeal of existing programmes or the insertion of Radcliffe & Maconie's two hours, is understandable.
I love most types of music (I'm tempted to dip in and buy one or two of JP's CDs) but I don't really want to hear (or force our daytime jocks to play) Nat Gonella, Ernest Tubbs, Geoffrey Gurrumul Yunupingu (who is actually on the R2 C Playlist at the moment), Waterson:Carthy or Mario Lanza in amongst the modern popular music of the last fifty years. It just doesn't make a nice blend.
I don't believe the "millions" want it either, otherwise the likes of Saga, 3C, Jazz FM/The Jazz would have attracted sufficient audience figures to enable them to survive.
I am happy with Radio 2 daytime as it is, or will be, so are most of my friends and erstwhile colleagues (the younger of whom, aged 30-40, can't wait for Chris Evans to take up Breakfast because they've got totally cheesed off with Moyles on R1)
On the subject of the Playlist, and overlapping with Radio 1's, I can think of nothing which appears on it which is out of place. There is nothing wrong with catchy and commercial pop music, which has been with us for as long as there have been records, and there is nothing really wrong with playing the same record four times a day, which they have also been doing for nearly fifty years, so that people who listen only at a certain time of day might get to hear a new track. It may grate if you hear it that number of times, but how many people listen all day? Overlapping is inevitable because, although most of what Radio 1 now place is nice when it stops (and their listeners probably think the same of ours) some does have cross-generational appeal. I would not want Radio 2 to stop playing Beyoncé or Rihanna or The Killers, for example. That would signal a step back to the rather staid early years of Radio 2.
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Ron |
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Briant
Joined: 02 Jun 2007
Posts: 964
Location: Liverpool England UK
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:24 am Post subject: Auntie knows best? |
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One of the most popular shows on my local BBC Radio station in Liverpool plays almost anything that is requested by listeners, so you might hear Mario Lanza, US Bonds, Billy Fury, George Jones, film soundtrack songs, Beatles, Sinead Lohan, Fats Domino, Jay and the Americans, Frank Sinatra, Andy Williams, Doris Day, The Searchers, Joan Baez, etc in any given programme by DJ Frankie Connor.
Bob Dylan's Theme Time Radio Hour also gathered much acclaim with a wonderfully wide selection of music. It reminds me of the song by Mark Germino called 'Rex Bob Lowenstein' the DJ who played what the people wanted to hear and was sacked for his troubles by the Top Forty Only format of the station owners and the record pluggers. |
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RockitRon
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 7646
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:37 am Post subject: |
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BDTTRH was highly acclaimed, and, as I've said somewhere else, my ipod on shuffle is not unlike your local radio programme, but you have to listen to them - they're not something you can have on as background to life, or to dip into during the day. Bob Dylan and Mario Lanza would infuriate me something awful at breakfast time.
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Ron |
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