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Sidelined Music

 
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iwarburton



Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 2133
Location: Northumberland

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:26 am    Post subject: Sidelined Music Reply with quote

Today's Telegraph reports that Dame Vera Lynn is in the Top 20 album charts with We'll Meet Again--the Very Best of Vera Lynn. At 92, she's the oldest living artist to achieve this.

Surely this must act as a loud message to R2 that millions of people want to hear precisely the type of music that they either ignore or shunt off into off-peak time.

During the 80s, R2 managed to find an hour each weekday lunchtime for David Jacobs to play some of this kind of music and it's high time that some new provision along these lines was made.

You could have different genres on different days, allowing weekly coverage of, say, big bands, dance bands, favourite Vera Lynn-era singers, a Sounds of the Fifties and some Brian Kay-style light music.

Easier said than done, of course, especially as I wouldn't want anyone to be axed to make room for this. My own preferred solution would be to have such a programme from 2 till 3 and cut Steve Wright's show back to 2 hours. However, I accept that this wouldn't suit everyone.

Another possibility would be to wait till Sir Tel leaves his morning slot and then seek the agreement of those involved to reorganise the day as follows:

6am. Sarah Kennedy.
8am. Ken Bruce.
11am. Jeremy Vine.
1pm New show as described above.
2pm onwards--as now.

Comments?

Ian.
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Helen May



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 17853
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd rather the schedule was left as it is now but with a wider selection of music played within them. I don't think you could move the JV show as they react to news and it would go on air before news of the day pretty much broken.

I would prefer the specialist shows to go out earlier in the evening than they do at present though. Radcliffe and Maconie would be better later on, but I guess they don't want to do a live show so late in the evening.

H
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I said it live on air in the studio with Jeremy Vine on 10/3/2005
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Mark Mayhew



Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 2869

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Ian-but this is an absolutely dreadful line up imho.

I for one would never ever listen to Radio 2 (not that the current daytime schedule is anything to rave about).

I agree with Helen though-the specialist shows need to go out earlier in the evening. Some of these specialist shows are really good but they are on simply too late in the evening.
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MadeinSurrey



Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 3130
Location: The Beautiful South

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely it is time to put the anachronism that is Steve Wright out to grass?

I agree with much of Ian's suggestion: it is imperative that artists such as Ella, Frank, Nat etc are given exposure to forthcoming generations.
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essexlady



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 348
Location: Essex

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well at least Sir Tel has been playing music by these artists over the past few weeks.
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Helen May



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes he has, it's been much better lately!

H
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I said it live on air in the studio with Jeremy Vine on 10/3/2005
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Rob



Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 163
Location: Leicester

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To put what would be a specialist music slot in the middle of the day would be breach of the Radio 2 brief - and would give people who like the Radio 2 "mix" a reason to tune out.

I don't agree that Vera Lynn getting into the Top 20 with a "Greatest Hits" compilation is a loud message to Radio 2, either. It is, after all, just one album. Or are you saying that Radio 2 should play something off every album that makes the Top 20?

Rob
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iwarburton



Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 2133
Location: Northumberland

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all comments. Newer members won't have had an opportunity to follow a long series of complaints about the lack of music for older listeners and my remarks were intended to address this, in the light of the fact that in 2009 so many would go out and buy one of Dame Vera's albums. And it isn't as if there's no precedent for what I'm suggesting. But at least we're all talking about this and further comments are welcome. Even if you think I'm talking total nonsense, have your say!

Ian.
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John W



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 3360
Location: Warwickshire, UK

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to agree with Ian.

It's against R2's remit to be playing pop/chart music all daytime. That is a clear attempt (successful) to compete with commercial stations when the remit says R2 should complement not compete.

Just because it's the most listened-to station doesn't make it right. The remit of R2 is supposed to prevent R2 taking advantgae of it's ad-free programmes, but clearly by using a playlist that overlaps with R1, 6music, local BBC and the commercial sector, R2 is taking audience away from all those other stations. It's very unfair to them, and unfair to the fans of non-pop music who have to wait till late evening for anything to listen to.


John
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Rob



Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 163
Location: Leicester

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John W wrote:
I have to agree with Ian.

It's against R2's remit to be playing pop/chart music all daytime. That is a clear attempt (successful) to compete with commercial stations when the remit says R2 should complement not compete.

Just because it's the most listened-to station doesn't make it right. The remit of R2 is supposed to prevent R2 taking advantgae of it's ad-free programmes, but clearly by using a playlist that overlaps with R1, 6music, local BBC and the commercial sector, R2 is taking audience away from all those other stations. It's very unfair to them, and unfair to the fans of non-pop music who have to wait till late evening for anything to listen to.


John


For reference, Radio 2's licence can be found here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/assets/files/pdf/regulatory_framework/service_licences/radio/2008/radio2_Apr08.pdf

Interesting. If Radio 2 were to ignore all the music played by Radio 1, 6 Music, local BBC and the commercial sector, then it would never play any pop music at all. Overlap with all of these stations is inevitable if Radio 2 is to gain any size of audience at all. And if you look in the Annex of the licence, you'll see that Radio 2 is intended to have a large audience because it's intended to contibute to the BBC's target of a weekly 90% audience reach.

It's not against the licence to play pop music all day, I'm afraid ("daytime" is defined in a footnote on page 3 of the licence).

Over the course of a full week Radio 2 does cover a wide range of music. The biggest issue I can see is that the licence requires genres indiginous to the UK to be included and gives folk and brass as examples. I know where the folk is in the schedule, but where's the regular brass slot?

I would like to see a greater variety of music content in the daytime schedules, too, but not the music that you're suggesting! We all have our own favourites and would like to see more of them; those that would fit best with the current daytime music policy obviously would have the best chance.

It's difficult to argue with success, and with Radio 2 being as successful as it is, change will tend to be evolution not revolution. Moving towards pop has secured a larger audience; my gripe is that there should be more pop from the 50s and 60s.

And Radio 2 is distinctive. I got "Beatles burn out" yesterday so I turned to the commercial sector. The presenters I found were ok, but the speech content was lacking and I doubt that you'll find many live sessions of the type that appear in Ken Bruce's show!

Rob.
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igs007



Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 190

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The brass slot is still there, Fridays at 9.30! Cool

I agree more 50s and 60s pop should be played daytime. I seem to remember Johnnie Walker playing a lot of this type of music in his daytime show, along with live music too say once or twice a week. The replacement show has neither the musical quality nor depth. I'm using this as just one example of how the music 'policy' (if you could call it that) has changed for the worse over the last 5 years.
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colby



Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 1216

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Sidelined Music Reply with quote

iwarburton wrote:
6am. Sarah Kennedy.
8am. Ken Bruce.
11am. Jeremy Vine.
1pm New show as described above.
2pm onwards--as now.

Comments?


Yes. It's rubbish!
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Lord Evan Elpuss



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be fair, only the 2:00-7:00pm bit would be rubbish. That definitely needs changing!!
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Rob



Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 163
Location: Leicester

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

igs007 wrote:
The brass slot is still there, Fridays at 9.30! Cool

I agree more 50s and 60s pop should be played daytime. I seem to remember Johnnie Walker playing a lot of this type of music in his daytime show, along with live music too say once or twice a week. The replacement show has neither the musical quality nor depth. I'm using this as just one example of how the music 'policy' (if you could call it that) has changed for the worse over the last 5 years.


Thank you for pointing me at the brass slot. I often work late in my home office during the week, but I don't often do this on Friday so I'm not often listening to the radio then.

Just goes to show the value of doing your research before you post...

Rob
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John W



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just heard it confirmed on Radio 5 news - Vera Lynn's album is No 1 !!


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Lord Evan Elpuss



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done Vera!!
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RockitRon



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 7565

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. I don't begrudge Vera Lynn this added bit of fame (there will be no fortune because most of the recordings have passed their 50-year sell-by date for artist royalties) but it is more a triumph of marketing and advertising than anything else.

Until the release of this CD you could have picked up any number of compilations of hers at a bargain price (5, or less) online and from shops, markets and jumble sales; in fact the stock had probably lain untouched for months.
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R2Icon



Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 1444

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of 1940s music on Drivetime this week. And on Thursday this week there'll be some live 1940s style music from an Andrews Sisters Style group whose name I've forgotten already the "Something Belles.

yesterday it was Glenn Miller and Tex Beneke Don't Sit Under The Apple Tree. I think there's some Glenn Miller each night this week ( not Friday)
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John W



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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Location: Warwickshire, UK

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some swing music on R2 is welcome, but why is it always American?

Joe Loss, Geraldo and Ambrose were the great swing bands in Britain during WWII but they don't get a look-in daytime R2 even with much of their records now restored on CD.

In the 1920s - 1930s British bands and singers made over 30,000 records and about 10% of it all is now available on CD, including probably 30% of the music 1937-1945. Now, without Malcolm Laycock, we might hear just three tracks per week on Desmond or Russell Davies.

John W
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Lord Evan Elpuss



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haven't I been hearing a trailer for a Radio 2 documentary about British dance bands recently?
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Clive55



Joined: 08 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It occurs to me that if they got rid of rad & Marc there would be plenty of time for specialist shows mid evening
How about this
7 till 8PM
Monday- R&B-Paul jones
Tues-Desmond Carrington The music goes round & Round
Wed-Folk with Mike Harding
Thu-Bob Harris Ameican
Friday-New Country

8 till 9PM
Mon-Classic rock & roll with Suzi Quatro
Tue- Songs from the Shows
Wed- Big Band with Sheila Tracey
Thu- Songs from the Mists of time
Fri-Friday Night Is music night
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John W



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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Location: Warwickshire, UK

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Evan Elpuss,

I haven't heard the trailers but I am aware of a three part series that was planned for the autumn. I didn't know the series was already produced and ready!

The writer (non-BBC) was in touch with me (before Malcolm's departure) and I provided him some recordings of band leader interviews with Alan Dell (which the BBC had lost!) so I might have played a small part in the series which was at the planning stage while Malcolm was doing his Sunday night show.

John W
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iwarburton



Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 2133
Location: Northumberland

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done, you. I await developments with interest.

Ian.
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Lord Evan Elpuss



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John,
I heard the trailer in the early part of this evening's Radcliffe/Maconie show. It doesn't give dates, only says 'this autumn'. The trailer seems to be coupled with another documentry about Shirley Bassey that Cerys Matthews is presenting. She also has a great 6 music afternoon show.

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iwarburton



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desmond Carrington's current Cabaret series ends on Friday with a repeat of his interview with Dame Vera Lynn from 2005.

Excellent, and I'll be listening--but Gillian Reynolds wrote in last Saturday's Telegraph that a programme on Alma Cogan was originally intended to be put into this slot and expressed the hope that we'll get to hear this sometime.

And so say all of us!

Ian.
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igs007



Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 190

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heard the 'Autumn on R2' trailer a couple of times yesterday, and am looking forward to everything on it. The dance bands, electric proms and documentaries on Ronnie Scott's and Maida Vale studios. Despite much criticism of R2, hearing this trailer was reassuring!
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R2Icon



Joined: 10 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gosh! Buzzcocks followed by Tenpole Tudor on ARF ... there goes the kitchen floor... Smile
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