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Protesting Over Government Policies
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mark occomore



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:38 pm    Post subject: Protesting Over Government Policies Reply with quote

I think the muppet who threw a fire extinguisher from the top of Tory HQ in London on Wednesday should be given a prison sentence. Also all those who smashed up the building should pay for the damage. Some of those students are a disgrace, and will never get a job.
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littlepieces



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark there is nothing wrong with a bit of a violent protest ,shows we are not lying down.There will be more protests and more violence
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is nothing wrong with peaceful protest but violence is always wrong
I have a lot of sympathy for the vast majority of students on the demonstration who were quite right to be complaining about tuition fees but they will now be for ever tarred with the brush of the idiotic marxist left wing extremists who like parasites attached themselves to what was a lawful and justified protest
I remember these kind of tactics from the 70s but I thought we'd moved on
Evidently not Sad
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idiot who thew extinguisher could be charged with attempted murder.
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Protesting Over Government Policies Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
I think the muppet who threw a fire extinguisher from the top of Tory HQ in London on Wednesday should be given a prison sentence. Also all those who smashed up the building should pay for the damage. Some of those students are a disgrace, and will never get a job.


Rubbish, Mark! You're taking too much notice of the tabloids yet again.

Anyhow, many of the riotous "students" were more likely to be gatecrashers from organised anarchist groups whose avowed intention is to cause anti-establishment havoc. I have no doubt that the vast majority of those in the protest were doing so peacefully and with good intent.

In a decent democracy, people have the right to protest. It's nothing new - the Suffragettes did exactly that, breaking a good few London windows in the process, and that was the best part of 100 years ago!
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Rachel
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems pointless to me. All that violence, it won’t change anything. It was an odd target too- just a shared office block, that has no significance other than being where the conservative party rent an office and have a couple of desks. The students made themselves look disorganised, stupid and weak. Westminster is that way---->
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becky sharp



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

littlepieces wrote:
Mark there is nothing wrong with a bit of a violent protest ,shows we are not lying down.There will be more protests and more violence
I sincerely hope not..
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Clive55



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The violence was commited by a small group. Probably the Anarchist group Class War- made up mostly, I hazzard a guesse- of the posh sons & daughters of Conservative & Lib Dem ministers!

The vast majority of the protestors were totally peaceful & they condemned the violence.
For Cameron & his colleagues to insinuate that the organisers of the protest, & even the Labour Party, were somehow supporting or to blame for this violence is an outrage & libelous.
Shouldn't those insinuating this be barred from parliament for five years for lying?
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undiscovered



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The government got exactly what it wanted, no serious debate about the reason the students felt they needed to protest.

A few trouble makers along with a bit of herd mentality took the news away from the cuts.

I am torn a little with this though, there have been an awful lot of protests since this government has taken over and this is the only one to make the news, so you can see why people are feeling angry and that their voices are not being heard.

Students should protest, it's their job
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Clive55



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

David Cameron in China of all places denouncing protests was hillarious!! I'm sure his Chinese hosts were in total agreement with him that disent should not be tolerated...
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undiscovered



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe they gave him a few tips for next time Very Happy
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Toggy



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

littlepieces wrote:
Mark there is nothing wrong with a bit of a violent protest


There is everything wrong with violent protest, it solves nothing and never will.
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littlepieces



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

exscuse my spellimg but what about apartheid?? That included a lot of violence.If memory serves me wasn't Mandela in prison for"terriost activites"
Without violence where would S.A be today.

Also the council tax riots Showed the tories the level of feeling against it
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SantaFefan



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry Littlepieces but I don't agree with your suggestion the Poll Tax rioting was justified.. neither the rioting itself or the outcome.. I believe the majority of folk in the UK agreed with the idea of the Poll Tax.. I certainly did. We all live in a community and we all have to contribute to it.
From the footage of the riots as I remember it, it was mainly hooded yobs doing what they do best, destroying anything they can get away with.. safety in numbers!
I'd condemn any destruction of property through rioting in this country and the full weight of the law should be brought against an offender.
Demonstration yes - violent behaviour and destruction? NO!
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was involved in Poll Tax demos that weren't violent, but they weren't reported by the tabloids. What a surprise. I wonder why? (No need to answer that question, it was merely rhetorical).

The Poll Tax demos achieved one important thing - they caught Thatcher on the back-foot and ultimitely led to her political fall. That was good, in my opinion. It proved that you can push people too far (ordinary people like me, not just the so-called extremists).

Watch out Cameron!
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Clive55



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the violence on the demo, perpetrated by a tiny minority- was a god send to the ConDems. It made it easier to ignore the legitemacy of the protestors argument & portray them all as violent yobs
When lecturers published a letter supporting the protest, Cameron accused them of supporting violence, which they were not
Should Cameron be suspended from Parliament for five years for telling an untruth?
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Santa as I may have said before I agreed with the idea of the Poll tax or Community Charge to give it the proper title but the big mistake by Margaret Thatcher at the time was to use Scotland as a guinea pig by testing it out there first
This alienated a lot of Scots and generated bad publicity and even today probably explains why there are so few Tory MPs in Scotland although apparently there are a few ginger rodents
A good concept ruined by incompetent political naivity I think Sad
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clive55 wrote:
Should Cameron be suspended from Parliament for five years for telling an untruth?


Cameron is just spouting the usual Establishment-approved stuff and playing to the Blue-Rinse-Brigade gallery - the ones who read the tabloids.

It's all part of the role. He has to appease the Tory Establishment - the ones who are watching him and this very unwholesome coalition with the LibDems very carefully, and in a year or so the knife will be in position behind his back.
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SantaFefan



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clive55 wrote:
When lecturers published a letter supporting the protest, Cameron accused them of supporting violence, which they were not


It seemed obvious to me the woman "Student Leader" on Jeremy's show last week supported violence, or certainly some destruction, although she didn't have the bottle to admit it when pushed for an answer...

I say let them pay for the damage.. all of it, then, they'll have a lesson on the real world where you have to pay for what you want or damage..

I'm not generally a big fan of students for sure but from what I've heard of the Government's plans, it'll cost the majority of them less than before! so if that's true, are they not intelligent enough to see that?
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Clive55



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest, I'm not that bothered about University tuition fees, but most of these guys were up there to make their opposition known. Of the thousands present, very few engaged in violence. to tar the peaceful protestors with that is dishonest.
What I am more concerned about is government plans to cut social services, particuarly for the old & disabled.
If they do go ahead with unacceptable cuts in this area I will get off my bum & go on a demonstration. I will certainly NOT take part in any violence, but expect the protest to be demonised by the government.
I believe cameron took his notebook with him to Beijing & was taking notes on tips about dealing with disent
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SantaFefan wrote:
I'm not generally a big fan of students for sure but from what I've heard of the Government's plans, it'll cost the majority of them less than before! so if that's true, are they not intelligent enough to see that?


I don't believe that's the case. This is a cloaked plan to slowly move higher education into the private sector as it is in the USA.

I believe that if really do wish to compete with our competing nations in the field of scientific innovation and R&D then we have to invest in the next generation of scientists. We're not doing that at the moment (the lack of encouragement on young people to think "science" as opposed to "media studies" is pitiful) and I haven't seen anything in the Tory plans which will improve that situation.

Incidentally, I was a media technology projects manager with the UK's largest university for 5 years, so I'm not arguing from a remote viewpoint. Right now, I happen to be in Plymouth - home of one of the UK's best technology-orientated universities - at the moment and there's serious concern about this whole business. I really don't think the Tories know what they're doing in this respect - all hot air, no substance or practical solutions. It will all result in yet another mess, just like the Thatcher/Baker re-organisation of education ended up in I was a school governor in the 80s.

Oh..... and I'm definitely a fan of students - students of science. As is Japan, China, Korea, Taiwan and other forward-thinking economies of the world.
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This country is a law a bidding place to live. These kids who are behaving like this on the streets and have supper rich parents should be given community service, and be ordered to cough up for the damage they caused. They also should be kicked out of Uni. Why should we pay for scum bags.
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
This country is a law a bidding place to live.


A what, Mark?

mark occomore wrote:
These kids who are behaving like this on the streets and have supper rich parents should be given community service, and be ordered to cough up for the damage they caused. They also should be kicked out of Uni. Why should we pay for scum bags.


So all students are rich kids?

Get real, Mark.
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undiscovered



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ColinB wrote:

So all students are rich kids?



No but after these changes to tuition fees they will have to be
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childprufe



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps the Police will go back to properly policing violent demonstrations with firmness instead of pussy footing. Then just wait for the little darlings to complain of police brutality. Now listen little muppets, you cannot play the big boys' game and then complain when the big boys join in.
You may be there to peacefully protest, but you are the cannon fodder that is used by the manipulative anarchist left. Grow up............
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undiscovered



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps if the police had read non Murdoch related newspapers they might have had an idea what was coming
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mark occomore



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do understand these students have the right to protest. Not protesting in a peaceful manner is disgraceful. Causing criminal damage isn't needed.
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Rachel
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The funny thing is, they don't understand what they are protesting about- they've got it completely wrong. You would think with all that time at Uni they'd at least be able to read.
On News 24 yesterday - there was some studenty type guy about 25 years old, saying, remember what the Tories did to us in the 80s- we won't let that happen again.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark occomore wrote:
I do understand these students have the right to protest. Not protesting in a peaceful manner is disgraceful. Causing criminal damage isn't needed.


The Poll Tax riots and the negative PR it brought to the Tory Government's handling of the issue was what eventually brought Thatcher down. I'm not condoning it, by the way, I'm just stating a fact.
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Clive55



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was listening to comments about the police tactics in yesterdays students demo in London from people who were there on Vanessa Feltz' prog.
The picture that emerges is this- the police decided to stop the march taking place & resorted to "kettling" the protestors- not letting anyone leave for some seven hours. Kids as young as 14 who had not engaged in any violence were not allowed to leave till after 8PM
There was also reportedly random violence by police officers
Secondly, police left an old, abandoned police van in the street, in the middle of the area being Kettled. for the express purpose of bored youngsters attacking it & providing video footage for the media
Disgraceful behaviour
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ColinB
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clive55 wrote:
I was listening to comments about the police tactics in yesterdays students demo in London from people who were there on Vanessa Feltz' prog.
The picture that emerges is this- the police decided to stop the march taking place & resorted to "kettling" the protestors- not letting anyone leave for some seven hours. Kids as young as 14 who had not engaged in any violence were not allowed to leave till after 8PM
There was also reportedly random violence by police officers
Secondly, police left an old, abandoned police van in the street, in the middle of the area being Kettled. for the express purpose of bored youngsters attacking it & providing video footage for the media
Disgraceful behaviour


Absolutely. And all this is done in order to influence what the tabloids report the next day. And guess what the tabloids report the next day? Answers on a postcard please.........

People really are gullible!
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Rachel
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it seems.
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ruddlescat



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Colin I have never understood why millions of apparently intelligent people are so blinkered and stupid not to be able to see through the agendas of the tabloid press and that does not only apply to newspapers it can apply to TV and radio as well

The main agenda is of course to sell newspapers or increase audience share and although there is supposed to be competition within the press in reality they all know each other and peddle the same rubbish if it gets them what they want

People in this country really do need to wake up and smell the coffee
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Rachel
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It always strikes me as a odd that people who are clever enough to know how everything works, the real meaning of everything and what's really going on in the world, aren't clever enough to be running the show. A Paradox I will never understand, those with all the answers are never asked the questions.
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undiscovered



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sat and watched the protests on BBC news when I got home from work, all the protests were peaceful except a small problem when the police started hearding the protesters past their own van, this provoked the protesters into attacking the van, not surprising.
The only interview I saw on tv that didn't know what was being protested about was with Michael Gove.
I find it very patronising and dismissive for people to say that the students "bless 'em" didn't know what they were protesting about.

I thought it was great to see the 6 formers out yesterday rather than just the current students as they will be the ones affected by the rises and stopping the Education Maintenance Allowance. ALL colleges will raise their prices to £9k so that their courses are not seen to be underpriced.

Another good thing out of this which Labour couldn't do in 13 years of power was to politicise the youngsters in our "big"society.
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RockitRon



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why was the attack on the police van not surprising? I thought they were supposed to be protesting about the increase in college fees.

As far as I was aware, the increase in fees was the last government's proposal, now being carried forward. I can, however, understand anyone who actually voted Liberal on their promise to freeze fees being a bit miffed.

Most politicians, in all parties, are patronising. They make me want to throw bricks (but I wouldn't).

It's good to know that our university towns will be much quieter places at night this weekend. All those students and 6th formers taking the day off to protest must have some studying to catch up on.
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undiscovered



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RockitRon wrote:
Why was the attack on the police van not surprising? I thought they were supposed to be protesting about the increase in college fees.


If the students were being herded forcefully by the police towards said van then they will lash out as the first inanimate object not to be a policeman

I don't think there would have been anything different if Labour had put the policy in place, but the students were protesting against the policy not party.

I do agree with you about the student vote and Lib Dems, as the LD's have always traditionally done well with liberal students. That will all come out in the wash in 5 years if the coalition last that long. I am expecting England to be a two party politiacl landscape after
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

undiscovered wrote:
I do agree with you about the student vote and Lib Dems, as the LD's have always traditionally done well with liberal students. That will all come out in the wash in 5 years if the coalition last that long. I am expecting England to be a two party politiacl landscape after


The LibDems have hung themselves with their own noose, and I too think they'll be annilated at the next General Election. Even Vince Cable (whom I once assumed to have greater integrity) has been telling us that his party was operating under circumstances that differed from those on which they based their campaign, but he omits to remind us that his party actually did choose to shack up with the enemy. They needn't have done so.

I think the party itself will face something of a rebellion soon - largely on the strength of the anger and frustration currently felt by grassroots members, who are the ones who have to take the flak at local level after all. A LibDem member of my Parish Council was called "Judas" the other day whilst shopping. That's not really fair, if understandable.
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undiscovered



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ColinB wrote:
I think the party itself will face something of a rebellion soon - largely on the strength of the anger and frustration currently felt by grassroots members, who are the ones who have to take the flak at local level after all. A LibDem member of my Parish Council was called "Judas" the other day whilst shopping. That's not really fair, if understandable.


I can't imagine the likes of Kennedy and Ashdown to keep tight lipped forever, they both spent an awful lot of time and effort making the party worthy of voting for. Not mine however
They also did quite well in true blue areas where they were the anti tory vote, they won't get that next time either
How long can they keep telling the voters that they can say a lot up the election becasue they thought they wouldn't get in ? and that we just don't understand.

Cable guy, I really thought he would have stepped down by now, I too thought he was a very intelligent man on the left of the party. He may turn out to be key for the coalition if the ex leaders revolt
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Clive55



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ColinB wrote:
Clive55 wrote:
I was listening to comments about the police tactics in yesterdays students demo in London from people who were there on Vanessa Feltz' prog.
The picture that emerges is this- the police decided to stop the march taking place & resorted to "kettling" the protestors- not letting anyone leave for some seven hours. Kids as young as 14 who had not engaged in any violence were not allowed to leave till after 8PM
There was also reportedly random violence by police officers
Secondly, police left an old, abandoned police van in the street, in the middle of the area being Kettled. for the express purpose of bored youngsters attacking it & providing video footage for the media
Disgraceful behaviour


Absolutely. And all this is done in order to influence what the tabloids report the next day. And guess what the tabloids report the next day? Answers on a postcard please.........

People really are gullible!

Indeed. the Daily Mail have gone to town on this with pages on "The Rage of the Girl Rioters" all focussed on the conveniently placed police car.
The Police Chief who was interviewed on Vannessa's show this morning was either telling a blatant lie or being deliberately obtuse when he described as "absolute Rubbish" claims that the empty police van had been placed there to encourage the "violence" on it the media made so much of
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