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mark occomore
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 9955
Location: UK
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 Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:44 pm Post subject: Jack Straw and Malcom Rifkind caught taking cash for access |
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| Quote: | | Two former foreign secretaries have been suspended from their parliamentary parties after being secretly filmed apparently offering their services to a private company for cash. |
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31589202
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These stories will keep happening until MP's won't be able to have any outside interests and that won't happen. The influence of outside interests helps parties receive donations and MP's elected. The problem is we all know what MP's are paid as it's on the tin, so what do you do? |
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ruddlescat
Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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Whilst I'm not a huge fan of most of our current crop of MPs surely the answer is to pay them more for the job
An ordinary backbench MP currently receives a salary of around £67000 which might sound a lot but just compare it with what the average GP gets paid - around £120000 per year - and of course most MPs have to have accommodation both in London and in their own constituency
I'm quite sure that this is why the whole expenses scandal came about which was absolutely disgusting but because MPs were fairly badly paid there was a culture of them feeling underpaid thus wrongly entitling them to employ very creative accounting techniques when it came to claiming expenses
Also if we paid MPs a proper basic salary it might encourage more ordinay people to get involved rather than existing rich people who aren't put off by the low rates of pay and simply see the job as a way of building business contacts and getting richer by that method 
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unclebuck
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 276
Location: Warwickshire
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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It doesn't look as though the rules will change anytime soon. I don't know how anyone can really believe that being an MP should not be regarded as a full time occupation, but the notion of multiple employment conveniently allows the waters to remain muddied when it comes to us judging the vested interests of our elected (supposed) representatives. We should not expect those turkeys with their beaks firmly in the trough, to be voting for Christmas!
(I got a blender recently, and I'm using it extensively for my metaphors).
Personally, I would double the MPs' salary, and then limit them to what should be their primary role in life, but that will never happen.
PS. I never liked Malcolm Rifkind's attitude anyway, and I am not surprised at the fate that has befallen him. |
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ruddlescat
Joined: 16 Sep 2010
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Location: Near Chester
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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I think there is also a valid argument that any person wishing to stand for Parliament should have had at least ten years experience in a career or a variety of careers in the 'real world' before being allowed to become a MP - thus getting rid of professional politicians including the likes of Cameron,Clegg,Balls and Milliband
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Helen May
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 19334
Location: Cheshire
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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I totally agree that politicians should have had career experience before being allowed to stand for Parliament. In, I probably expect, most cases there are very few who have, so therefore have no idea of life for those outside the 'Westminster bubble'.
H
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I said it live on air in the studio with Jeremy Vine on 10/3/2005 |
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becky sharp
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 6814
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| unclebuck wrote: | It doesn't look as though the rules will change anytime soon. I don't know how anyone can really believe that being an MP should not be regarded as a full time occupation, but the notion of multiple employment conveniently allows the waters to remain muddied when it comes to us judging the vested interests of our elected (supposed) representatives. We should not expect those turkeys with their beaks firmly in the trough, to be voting for Christmas!
(I got a blender recently, and I'm using it extensively for my metaphors).
Personally, I would double the MPs' salary, and then limit them to what should be their primary role in life, but that will never happen.
PS. I never liked Malcolm Rifkind's attitude anyway, and I am not surprised at the fate that has befallen him. |
Well he's a stranger to the truth for a start...he said in that video...
“You’d be surprised how much free time I have. I am self-employed. So nobody pays me a salary, I have to earn my income.
Later, after being pulled up on this, he said that that was a "silly thing to say"....well he would do wouldn't he?..after the fact.
Last year he charged a charity £5,000 for a one hour speech...what a charmer!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sir-malcolm-rifkind-charged-jewish-charity-5000-for-onehour-speech-10067541.html
Just to balance it up a little, in case it seems I'm picking on Malcolm Rifkind, I don't think either him or Jack Straw come out of this smelling of roses. |
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ruddlescat
Joined: 16 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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I agree Becky and I used to know Jack Straw in the seventies in the days when he was president of the national union of students
He was an a--hole then and he still is
He's actually ruined my life along with Tony Blair so for me the man is a complete evil bastard 
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becky sharp
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| ruddlescat wrote: | I agree Becky and I used to know Jack Straw in the seventies in the days when he was president of the national union of students
He was an a--hole then and he still is
He's actually ruined my life along with Tony Blair so for me the man is a complete evil bastard |
Personally, I wouldn't go that far,ruddles. |
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ruddlescat
Joined: 16 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps you have'nt experienced having your life ruined by Blair and his cohorts Becky- unlike me
You are clearly one of the ones who blindly voted for Blair in the nineties irrespective of the huge damage he was doing to this country at the time not least because of the lies he told over the Iraq war
The man is a complete wan--r
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becky sharp
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| ruddlescat wrote: | Perhaps you have'nt experienced having your life ruined by Blair and his cohorts Becky- unlike me
You are clearly one of the ones who blindly voted for Blair in the nineties irrespective of the huge damage he was doing to this country at the time not least because of the lies he told over the Iraq war
The man is a complete wan--r |
Hang on there,ruddles....don't presume to know how I voted back then or now for that matter. |
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ruddlescat
Joined: 16 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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Well Becky I'd never presume who anyone had voted for but anyone who defends Blair these days has a huge problem - I really hope you didn't vote for the worst Prime Minister in the history of this country
And if you didn't vote for it why are you suggesting you support it 
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becky sharp
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| ruddlescat wrote: | Well Becky I'd never presume who anyone had voted for but anyone who defends Blair these days has a huge problem - I really hope you didn't vote for the worst Prime Minister in the history of this country
And if you didn't vote for it why are you suggesting you support it |
It's got nothing to do with you who I vote for,ruddles. |
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ruddlescat
Joined: 16 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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True Becky but if you're an active member of a forum like this one and you post about issues you're always going to have to justify your opinions - and we can all glean quite a lot about your political leanings from that - I'm not being critical - just pointing out the obvious
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becky sharp
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| ruddlescat wrote: | | True Becky but if you're an active member of a forum like this one and you post about issues you're always going to have to justify your opinions - and we can all glean quite a lot about your political leanings from that - I'm not being critical - just pointing out the obvious |
I don't feel I have to justify my opinions to anyone.
This forum is hardly a hotbed of politics where there are discussions day after day. |
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Helen May
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 19334
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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You know we don't vote for the Prime Minister in this country Ruddles. It's also quite possible that some members of his party can be admired even if you don't agree with their politics!
Margaret Thatcher even said that 'Britain was in safe hands with Tony Blair as leader'.........not sure I'd totally agree with that but there we are!
H
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88 - 91 FM this is Radio 2 from the BBC!
I said it live on air in the studio with Jeremy Vine on 10/3/2005 |
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becky sharp
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Helen May wrote: | You know we don't vote for the Prime Minister in this country Ruddles.It's also quite possible that some members of his party can be admired even if you don't agree with their politics!
Margaret Thatcher even said that 'Britain was in safe hands with Tony Blair as leader'.........not sure I'd totally agree with that but there we are!
H |
Agreed Helen! |
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ruddlescat
Joined: 16 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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Yes that's fair comment but it just annoys me that so many people in this country were taken in by one Mr Blair but now won't admit to actually voting for his party at the time when they must have known he would become PM
If that disgusting apology for a human being had never been elected then the chances are that the middle east would now be a far less hostile place and we wouldn't be worried about people being beheaded in the street in our own country 
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becky sharp
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| ruddlescat wrote: | | Yes that's fair comment but it just annoys me that so many people in this country were taken in by one Mr Blair but now won't admit to actually voting for his party at the time |
I can't see any circumstances where anyone would have to,as you say, 'admit' how they voted. (unless they had a visit from the Spanish Inquisition perhaps?  ) I have never,in polite conversation, ever been asked how I vote nor would I ever expect to be. | ruddlescat wrote: | | when they must have known he would become PM |
Well,people are hardly likely to vote for the party of someone they don't want to become PM! |
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ruddlescat
Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 18010
Location: Near Chester
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps I'm unusual Becky but I'm always quite happy to tell people how I have voted and how I intend to vote in the future
I just don't get the 'secrecy' thing at all but of course I would always respect a person's right not to disclose their voting preferences in what is a secret ballot - that point is not in issue
Whilst officially we elect a constituency MP in a General Election rather than voting for our choice of Prime Minister effectively anyone who votes Labour or Conservative knows who will be PM if their chosen party wins so is our position really all that different TO the likes of the USA?
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Colin
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 916
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| ruddlescat wrote: | | Whilst officially we elect a constituency MP in a General Election rather than voting for our choice of Prime Minister effectively anyone who votes Labour or Conservative knows who will be PM if their chosen party wins so is our position really all that different TO the likes of the USA? |
In 1997, my Labour Party candidate lived in the constituency and was (and still is) a friend of mine. I voted for him on the strength of his own policies and commitment. I knew that if his party gained power then Blair would become PM. At the time, I and lots of others saw that as a good thing, but of course the decisions that had to be made on the issue of conflict in Iraq changed all that. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, is it not?
The problem with the Labour Party is that thanks to Blair, Brown, Mandelson and the like it's now led by career politicians who are actually centrists - in other words, Tories by another name. |
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Lord Evan Elpuss
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 3415
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| ruddlescat wrote: | | so is our position really all that different TO the likes of the USA? |
The powers that be in this country (including the various media) seem to want to 'Americanise' as much of our lives as they can, including our elections (or, at least general elections) But how likely are they to include the rule that they have in the USA about a president not being able to serve more than two terms in office? Which means that Barack Obama will not be in the White House after their next election, even if Barack's party wins it. Whilst I feel a sense of despair at the creeping Americanisation of our country, I'll bet that they won't introduce a similar rule over here that limits a prime minister to just two terms in 10 Downing St. However, that's one occasion when I'd love to be proved wrong.
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Lord Evan Elpuss, Your ideal job is a Lumberjack. |
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Colin
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 916
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Lord Evan Elpuss wrote: | | I'll bet that they won't introduce a similar rule over here that limits a prime minister to just two terms in 10 Downing St. However, that's one occasion when I'd love to be proved wrong. |
But in the USA they have Primaries in which people effectively end up casting votes for one of two Presidential candidates, whereas here it's our 650+ MPs whose elected party leader who becomes PM, and the manner in which they determine this changes from party to party.
To be honest, I'd rather have this system that the US one. However, I agree with you on the increasingly American approach to national and local politics; this new trend for the Leaders' Debates on TV is one such example which, in my opinion, is a complete and utter waste of time and resources, and merely serves to focus people's attention on the participants' ability to score points against each other. What nonsense. |
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Lord Evan Elpuss
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 3415
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Colin wrote: |
To be honest, I'd rather have this system that the US one. |
I wouldn't want the whole U.S. election experience. Doesn't it go on for a year or more before a president is actually elected? I just want the two term limit imposed on our prime minister. One could then feel a huge sense of relief in the knowledge that an unpopular prime minister will not be in situ for a third term, but by the same token, there would be sadness that a popular one would also not have a third term of office.
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Schizoidman
Joined: 20 Sep 2010
Posts: 1140
Location: Rural West Sussex
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, it seems that David Cameron also agrees with the two term limit...on himself at least! |
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